Trying to be competitive versus actually trying to win...

[Stradling]

This is the equivalent of wanting Willits to play over Edmonds because Willits looks like he tries harder.

[Ohtaniland]

a player has to have a first and second gear in order to have a third and fourth.

Ok we will cool our heals with this but let's check back in July and see how he's doing. I believe that he will continue his downward spiral and his body will breakdown even more. The FO will continue putting quarters into the Excuse-a-Matic machine.

[Stradling]

Ok we will cool our heals with this but let's check back in July and see how he's doing. I believe that he will continue his downward spiral and his body will breakdown even more. The FO will continue putting quarters into the Excuse-a-Matic machine.

I'd rather the front office give us options to play in his place for when he breaks down. We need another bat or two to supplement his decline and injuries.

[Second Base]

Some incredibly stupid opinions here. The lack of loyalty that Scotty shows for Weaver is bullshit, but whatever. As for Claude and Albert, he is past his prime, no doubt about it, but he hit 40 home runs last year. It isn't like he is Hamilton or Abreu his last year here. Also once again in Alberts case, who replaces him right now on this team? CJ Cron? Ok, but he isn't as good defensively. So then who replaces Cron as DH? Anyone ready for the Effren Navarro era to start? Bitch about things that matter. If we don't have replacements who are better then why bother getting upset about them playing "well past thier prime"?

 

I'd rather have a team that isn't loyal to its past their prime veterans that wins versus a team that's very loyal to its veterans and loses as a direct result. 

 

I'm fine with Albert playing.  The reason?  We have no one better to man DH than Albert.  He's the best we have there and thus he should play.  If his lower body were healthy I'd say he needs to be playing 1B while Cron DH's, but that much has been a problem the last couple years.  And as for Weaver?  Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Wilson, Santiago, Shoemaker and Tropeano are all better than him.  But sure, let's keep throwing Weaver out there, not because of what he's capable of in 2016, but what he did in 2010.  I mean at that rate, Bobby Bonilla should be starting every night for the Mets.  He's still under contract, and he really did some impressive things in the 80's.  That's how logical it is to have Weaver in the rotation.  We could trade both Wilson and Santiago, and I STILL wouldn't put Weaver in the rotation. 

[Stradling]

I'd rather have a team that isn't loyal to its past their prime veterans that wins versus a team that's very loyal to its veterans and loses as a direct result.

I'm fine with Albert playing. The reason? We have no one better to man DH than Albert. He's the best we have there and thus he should play. If his lower body were healthy I'd say he needs to be playing 1B while Cron DH's, but that much has been a problem the last couple years. And as for Weaver? Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Wilson, Santiago, Shoemaker and Tropeano are all better than him. But sure, let's keep throwing Weaver out there, not because of what he's capable of in 2016, but what he did in 2010. I mean at that rate, Bobby Bonilla should be starting every night for the Mets. He's still under contract, and he really did some impressive things in the 80's. That's how logical it is to have Weaver in the rotation. We could trade both Wilson and Santiago, and I STILL wouldn't put Weaver in the rotation.

Remember last year when Weaver went on the DL? That was because they could no longer be loyal to him. By the way you are to smart to compare Weaver to Bonilla.

[Second Base]

Remember last year when Weaver went on the DL? That was because they could no longer be loyal to him. By the way you are to smart to compare Weaver to Bonilla.

 

And you're smart not to mention that I'm comparing the logic of playing between the two, not the two players  themselves.  Genius. 

[mtangelsfan]

I'd rather have a team that isn't loyal to its past their prime veterans that wins versus a team that's very loyal to its veterans and loses as a direct result. 

 

I'm fine with Albert playing.  The reason?  We have no one better to man DH than Albert.  He's the best we have there and thus he should play.  If his lower body were healthy I'd say he needs to be playing 1B while Cron DH's, but that much has been a problem the last couple years.  And as for Weaver?  Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Wilson, Santiago, Shoemaker and Tropeano are all better than him.  But sure, let's keep throwing Weaver out there, not because of what he's capable of in 2016, but what he did in 2010.  I mean at that rate, Bobby Bonilla should be starting every night for the Mets.  He's still under contract, and he really did some impressive things in the 80's.  That's how logical it is to have Weaver in the rotation.  We could trade both Wilson and Santiago, and I STILL wouldn't put Weaver in the rotation. 

 

Your POV is skewed by the fact that you completely overrate the Angels farm system.

[Second Base]

Scotty, what team wouldn't play either of those guys? The Giants continued to throw Zito out there every 5th day despite his problems. The Yankees will keep throwing out Sabathia. Upton Sr. will get 500 AB's for whomever he plays for, so long as he's healthy.

 

Money is a big part of it, of course. But in some cases loyalty is a part of it as well. I know it seems kind of ridiculous, but these guys are human beings. They aren't just robots you replace with a newer, better model every time they start to falter. You can do this with younger guys, and cheaper options, but not veterans you've invested millions of dollars into.

 

Barry Zito pitched for the Giants because of the money, and they didn't have a better replacement.  The Giants owed no loyalty to Barry the way the A's did.  That's why he finished his career in an Oakland uniform, not a Giants uniform.  The Yankees continue to roll out CC because of the money and they don't have a better replacement.  It isn't because they're loyal.  That team owes loyalty to Jeter, not CC.  Maybe Cleveland or Milwaukee, but not New York.  

 

The Angels HAVE a better replacement for Weaver.  That's the difference here.  Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Wilson, Santiago, Shoemaker, Tropeano.  There's no reason for Jered Weaver to be in the rotation.  They could pull off a blockbuster and trade Wilson AND Santiago, and there still wouldn't be a good reason for Jered Weaver to pitch in rotation.

 

There's a huge difference between our situation and NY/SF's.

[Second Base]

Your POV is skewed by the fact that you completely overrate the Angels farm system.

 

This has literally NOTHING to do with the farm system.  Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, Wilson, Shoemaker and Tropeano.  How many prospects do you see there? 

 

ZERO.  The answer is zero.  

 

I think your POV is skewed by a number a factors, not the least of which the inherant need to feel accepted by disagreeing with the guy the cool kids are disagreeing with. 

[Stradling]

This has literally NOTHING to do with the farm system. Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, Wilson, Shoemaker and Tropeano. How many prospects do you see there?

ZERO. The answer is zero.

I think your POV is skewed by a number a factors, not the least of which the inherant need to feel accepted by disagreeing with the guy the cool kids are disagreeing with.

I'm far from a cool kid and he seldom agrees with me. Tropeano has no track record yet you're positive he's better than Weaver.

[tdawg87]

Richards, Wilson, Heaney, and Santiago are in the rotation regardless, so name-dropping them doesn't further your point. Skaggs hasn't pitched in over a year. Shoemaker was terrible last year, and Tropeano has pitched 5 major league innings.

None of those guys are a better option until they prove they are.

I give Weaver as much crap as anybody but your vitriol towards him is absurd.

[Second Base]

Richards, Wilson, Heaney, and Santiago are in the rotation regardless, so name-dropping them doesn't further your point. Skaggs hasn't pitched in over a year. Shoemaker was terrible last year, and Tropeano has pitched 5 major league innings.

None of those guys are a better option until they prove they are.

I give Weaver as much crap as anybody but your vitriol towards him is absurd.

 

 

Matt Shoemaker - 28 years old, 4.46 ERA 7.7 K/9 2.3 BB/9

Jered Weaver - 33 years old, 4.64 ERA (4.81 FIP) 5.1 BB/9 1.9 BB/9

 

I agree, Shoemaker was terrible last year, and he was better than Jered Weaver.  That'll tell you all you need to know right there. 

 

Nick Tropeano - 24 years old 3.82 ERA (2.60 FIP) 37 IP 38 K's 9.1 K/9 2.4 BB/9 across 7 starts.  I'd say he's given us every reason to put him in the rotation.  That's above average performance across a month and a half of starts.  

 

Tyler Skaggs before injury was 22 years old.  4.30 ERA with a 3.55 FIP. 6.8 K/9 2.4 BB/9.  

 

I'm right on this one, because math.  I find the blind ignorance of the truth to absurd.

Edited December 28, 2015 by ScottyA_MWAH

[mtangelsfan]

This has literally NOTHING to do with the farm system.  Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Santiago, Wilson, Shoemaker and Tropeano.  How many prospects do you see there? 

 

ZERO.  The answer is zero.  

 

I think your POV is skewed by a number a factors, not the least of which the inherant need to feel accepted by disagreeing with the guy the cool kids are disagreeing with. 

 

If you are going to try to use big words you might want to learn how to spell them first.

 

and it has nothing to do with wanting to be anything.  The fact that a majority of posters think you constantly overrate Angel prospects might just be because it is true instead of the man trying to bring you down.

[QuinlansMinion]

Heck even a 36 year old Jim Thome hit .275 / 36hrs / 96rbi's / .973ops

Yes a .973ops !!!!

Yeah but Thome was on roids though

[Vegas Halo Fan]

This is where you show your bias.

 

Pujols was better than Cron in almost every offensive category.  His WAR was 3.1 and Cron's was .2.

 

This doesn't even take into account Cron's defense which is offensive.

 

Pujols is also still a pretty decent defensive 1B.

[Angel Oracle]

Let's see what Weave's velocity is come April.

If he's maxing out at say 87-88mph, and sitting on 85-86mph, give him a chance.

If he's still sitting on 82-83mph, then it may be time for a decision to be made. 

[Second Base]

If you are going to try to use big words you might want to learn how to spell them first.

 

and it has nothing to do with wanting to be anything.  The fact that a majority of posters think you constantly overrate Angel prospects might just be because it is true instead of the man trying to bring you down.

 

My bad for misspelling a word.  Typically, I'm not that bad when it comes to spelling and grammar.  At least I better not be, being an English teacher and all.  

 

Also, I'll ask you again, please name one pitcher in contention for the rotation that's also a prospect.  The fact is, you can't, because there aren't any prospects involved here.  Thus, prospects have nothing to do with this.  

 

But yeah, sure.  My bias toward Angel prospects make it so that I think C.J. Wilson and Hector Santiago are better than Jered Weaver.  Because it's clear that C.J. Wilson and Hector Santiago were both Angel prospects and Jered Weaver wasn't.   

[Stradling]

Tropeano

[Second Base]

Tropeano

 

Not a prospect. 

[Stradling]

Ok, a complete unknown commodity

[mtangelsfan]

Skaggs is a prospect. He was in the Angels system and he is now again.

[halosfan1970]

Skaggs is a prospect. He was in the Angels system and he is now again.

 

Tyler Skaggs has accumulated far more than 45 days on an active 25 man roster. He exceed his rookie service time in 2013. He has pitched 181 major league innings across three seasons. He pitched 113 inning for the Angels in 2014. 

 

Tyler Skaggs is not a prospect.

Edited December 29, 2015 by halosfan1970

[eligrba]

I am in Scotty's corner in this debate. FWIW

[Docwaukee]

We don't know what the halos 2016 plans are for Weaver, and they don't know either.  But he's earned the benefit of the doubt.  You don't have to decide anything right now.  If he comes to camp throwing 84mph and can't get guys out, then you can bet it's gonna be a problem that even he would admit.   People are splitting hairs about an issue that hasn't even happened as of yet.  Again, we have other fish to fry before we worry about our 5th starter.  

[stormngt]

The sad part is, you're right. Same goes for Weaver. The Angels in particular seem to set more emphasis on veteran performances of an increasingly distant past than other teams. Part of it is Scioscia and his veteran-favoring tendencies, which aren't always wrong. The other is likely the money. If they're paying a player exorbitant amounts of money, they intend to play that play regardless.

I mean if you take out the distant past and the money, what are Albert and Jered? We have an old, all-or-nothing hitter with a problem reaching base and seriously debilitating injury issues. We also have a fly ball specialist that throws an 84 mph fastball. Albert would be a starting DH, with the caveat that you have a very good option in AAA or on the bench because things could turn comically bad quickly. As for Weaver, he wouldn't be in the majors.

Weavers has had only one year where he wasn't very good. Out of loyalty he is owed another shot next year. If he continues to struggle than I would listen to your argument.

It is amazing how so many of you turn on a player who bolts for free agency because they are disloyal. Now you and many on this board want to drop a guy who signed a team friendly deal and has earned every penny of his contract because of one bad season.

As for Pujols tell me who is better than him hitting behind Trout. Pujols isn't earning his contract but he is the second best power hitter on the team.