Cheap versus scared... not sure which is worse

[floplag]

If we assume that Arte isnt just being on the cheap, and is legitimately scared of getting burned again... this might be worse than actually being cheap.

Cheap and not wanting to bust the luxury tax is one thing, i can understand that even though as a fan I dont like it considering the causes... but i can almost understand it.  

If the issues is scared of big contracts though, as some have suggested, this might be worse!.  No impact player is ever going to get signed without risk in terms of dollars and/or years.  So are we to assume then that we are going to be out of those discussions for the foreseeable future?

 

Waiting out the bad deals is one thing... being gunshy about contracts is another... and puts us in a far worse place.

 

Weve literally gone form large market player back in time to the Disney years in less than one season, all basically due to the Hamil-douche debacle.  I never thought i would miss those old times but right now as fans being set up with expectations and then knocked down is far worse than having unrealistic hope.

[19HALO71]

Don't we have 3 1/2 months before the season starts?

 

Go Halos!!!

[floplag]

Don't we have 3 1/2 months before the season starts?

 

Go Halos!!!

 

Sure, we also have a trashed reputation and zero bargaining chips to go with the same amount of leverage.  You really think more is coming aside from added dumpster diving and ST waiver wire transactions?  

I dont at this point.. too many sound bites that say nothing but were done in plain english

 

I just dont see it... i felt this way at the break last season when we threw away a shot at the post... i found some hope when the rumor mills started but since that was all nonsense and we were focused on the Nava's of the word please tell me why i should have any remaining optimism?

I say the same thing I said at the deadline last season.. i hope im wrong.  I wasnt then, i dont think i am now, ill be pleasantly surprised if i am

Edited December 18, 2015 by floplag

[Inside Pitch]

I would have voted for a third option -- Stupid.  

 

I don't believe Moreno is cheap -- I don't think he is scared either...   I think Doc nailed it when he said he's drawn a line in the sand and he's refusing to cross it -- IMO, he's being stubborn and thus stupid.  Not spending in a year where there is a serious NEED, is just plain stupid...  Doing that after having spent on Hamilton when there wasn't a need is moronic.  

 

Hopefully something happens between now and ST that leads Arte Morono, to wise up.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

$180 million in payroll is not being cheap.

Following the herd on 7+ year contracts is not being wise.

For the time being Arte is listening to his advisors. Y'all gonna have to accept it.

[Inside Pitch]

$180 million in payroll is not being cheap.

Following the herd on 7+ year contracts is not being wise.

For the time being Arte is listening to his advisors. Y'all gonna have to accept it.

 

 

While I think it's stupid, you're right and we best get around to accepting it.   We can hope this is Stoneman 2.0 with the OFers playing the part of Steve Traschel and others...

[Stradling]

It's short sighted. So next year he will either use the same approach or pay equal for less talent.

[T.G.]

vindictive... spiteful...

[floplag]

$180 million in payroll is not being cheap.

Following the herd on 7+ year contracts is not being wise.

For the time being Arte is listening to his advisors. Y'all gonna have to accept it.

 

Sure... but he will need to accept less people buying tickets and such.  But i guess fans dont count, only beans 

[Inside Pitch]

Sure... but he will need to accept less people buying tickets and such.  But i guess fans dont count, only beans 

 

The fans have had really good -- compare the Angels' fan cost index to the other teams in the top ten in payroll...   He's been giving the fans one hell of a deal for the entirety of his ownership.  The greedy talk rings a bit hollow when you consider he could have made a lot more money off the fans...

[floplag]

The fans have had really good -- compare the Angels' fan cost index to the other teams in the top ten in payroll...   He's been giving the fans one hell of a deal for the entirety of his ownership.  The greedy talk rings a bit hollow when you consider he could have made a lot more money off the fans...

 

It isnt greedy to expect the owner to keep his word.  HE set this expectation, not us.

Little easy to dismiss us as the problem here. 

[Inside Pitch]

It isnt greedy to expect the owner to keep his word.  HE set this expectation, not us.

Little easy to dismiss us as the problem here. 

 

Who's dismissed "us" as the problem?  And what word is he going back on?  Also, are you reading my comments to mean the fans are greedy?  I'm saying veiled references to his being greedy or only caring about the bottom line are rather ridiculous..   Regardless, if you could please fill me in on these promises..  I'm curious what it is I've missed, I've never seen Arte make a promise he would always spend regardless of the situation.  I have howeever seen him say the complete opposite -- in fact, I remember quite vividly how he was very upfront when he took over the team that he would be able to spend more early on and he planned to take advantage of it..    It's been a long time since Arte had the luxury to depreciate his assets as a new owner and he's kept on spending.  

Edited December 20, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[LightTheHalo]

I think the Heyward contract with the opt out was probably the ideal situation considering that his offensive numbers have been rather pedestrian to this point so it's a pretty good gamble that in three years he should be well in line for a bigger contract.

 

If you don't want to be on the hook for the rest of that money, you just let him walk.

 

(This is all contingent, of course, on whether or not he was even interested in playing for the Angels, of course.)

Edited December 18, 2015 by LightTheHalo

[Inside Pitch]

I think the Heyward contract with the opt out was probably the ideal situation considering that his offensive numbers have been rather pedestrian to this point so it's a pretty good gamble that in three years he should be well in line for a bigger contract.

 

If you don't want to be on the hook for the rest of that money, you just let him walk.

 

(This is all contingent, of course, on whether or not he was even interested in playing for the Angels, of course.)

 

Having watched his presser -- I don't think anyone was going to sign him but the Cubbies.  He saw a golden opportunity to make some cash and be a part of history.  Can't really blame him.  But I agree 100%, thats the sort of deal the Angels should have offered.

[IEAngelsfan]

$180 million in payroll is not being cheap.

Following the herd on 7+ year contracts is not being wise.

For the time being Arte is listening to his advisors. Y'all gonna have to accept it.

Maybe I missed the links, but where is it stating that both Upton and Cespedes want 7 year contracts?

 

And to your last sentence......Unfortunately, he didn't listen to his advisors when he signed Hamilton.

[tdawg87]

Arte isn't cheap in the slightest. He just isn't very wise when it comes to running a baseball team. He's also apparently very petty and now we have to suffer the consequences of that.

[Inside Pitch]

Arte isn't cheap in the slightest. He just isn't very wise when it comes to running a baseball team. He's also apparently very petty and now we have to suffer the consequences of that.

 

I'm gonna count you in the "he's being stupid" camp.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

This is Cheap:

 

 

This is Scared:

 

This is Angels fans currently:

[Ohtaniland]

$180 million in payroll is not being cheap.

Following the herd on 7+ year contracts is not being wise.

For the time being Arte is listening to his advisors. Y'all gonna have to accept it.

Yes and I didn't even charge him a consultation fee. Arte now understands that he doesn't need to give players 7 year deals for what they did in the past.

[Inside Pitch]

Slappy won.   Thread done.

[Blarg]

Maybe I missed the links, but where is it stating that both Upton and Cespedes want 7 year contracts?

And to your last sentence......Unfortunately, he didn't listen to his advisors when he signed Hamilton.

Arte said he would spend the money for the right player. These guys are not that player. Honestly, just because this is the fullest crop of free agents doesn't mean they are all that great compared to the contracts they expect. They are not future MVPs.

[tdawg87]

Arte said he would spend the money for the right player. These guys are not that player. Honestly, just because this is the fullest crop of free agents doesn't mean they are all that great compared to the contracts they expect. They are not future MVPs.

 

I'd be interested in knowing what Arte considers to be "the right player". I don't think that player exists.

 

I know you're just playing contrarian again but you cannot seriously say that Upton, or Heyward, or Gordon wouldn't significantly help this team. Who cares if they aren't "future MVPs"? If you want even remotely marginal talent, you have to pay. If not, you can stick to scouting internationally and drafting better. Oh wait.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

So, we should welcome Bryce to So Cal in 2019?..........

Edited December 19, 2015 by SlappyUtilityGuy

[Blarg]

I'd be interested in knowing what Arte considers to be "the right player". I don't think that player exists.

 

I know you're just playing contrarian again but you cannot seriously say that Upton, or Heyward, or Gordon wouldn't significantly help this team. Who cares if they aren't "future MVPs"? If you want even remotely marginal talent, you have to pay. If not, you can stick to scouting internationally and drafting better. Oh wait.

 

Sorry, Tdawg, it's not a contrarian stance just to play devils advocate like you think. I really believe the Angels are at the crossroads where the foolish contracts to non superstars has run it's course. They simply crunched the numbers on some of these guys and said it is not worth the money, years and another first round draft pick pissed away on a guy that is just better. Not amazingly better but just better.

 

That's not the $20-25 million a year definition of smart move, a guy that could help the team. They reached the cliffs edge and didn't like the view. I applaud them for not jumping off one more time. And next off season, the don't have to jump off that cliff for the best guy in the free agent pool since he is not going to be that impact player either.

 

I get you've all invested a lot of time picking the best solution to left field but what the Angels seem to have come to the conclusion is playing Global Thermal Nuclear Warfare is not the winning strategy. Putting money in front of e very problem is not the solution. They've been down that road and decided it was time to find another way. You know, like all of the smart GMs have been doing to try and build a contender without killing their future.

 

As I've said in other threads, this plan could change in a heartbeat should the numbers all move towards the Angels favor instead of just enriching an agent. They could just pick up one of the bi names as the weeks work their ways to Spring Training. For all the hand wringing you guys are doing and some being pathetic assholes, only one of the big name outfielders has ink a contract. It appears the Angels are doing no less or more than other ball clubs in moving towards an offer. Most have what you've seen is trades and a few average guys getting an average payday.

 

Arte is not cheap and he is not stupid but he has made some disastrous decisions on player personnel, primarily who he had put in the GM role which led to unfortunate acquisitions that weren't based on best scenario outcomes. New group, new plan, you may not like or appreciate it because it isn't the first game of the season, the roster isn't locked in and no one has seen all of these new guys play together.

 

Give it a chance.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I'd be interested in knowing what Arte considers to be "the right player". I don't think that player exists.

 

IMO this was just a phrase he threw out to get people to quit asking him about exceeding the salary cap.