Middle Class Losing Ground

[ABC]

As long as schooling costs as much as it does, it should be tied to earnings or college loans will never get paid back.

 

What's your formula?

[juansavage1]

Not that I've always followed my own advice but since high school my best friend and I would always say, "work hard and good things will happen."

Generally, everything I have I earned and everything i don't have, i don't deserve.

I make it a point, not just to work hard and do a good job, but to learn as much about my job as possible, that includes what other areas do, how they do it, and even how it could be improved. Not only that but complaining does absolutely nothing. Not only does it make you miserable, but it usually makes the people around you miserable as well.

If you work hard enough, most of the time you will be rewarded. You just have to be patient.

[juansavage1]

As long as schooling costs as much as it does, it should be tied to earnings or college loans will never get paid back.

That's actually the way it's done now. Every parent fills out a fafsa and financial aid adjusts.

[juansavage1]

Absolutely, if you go into teaching high school students you shouldn't be surprised by the pay. IMO, teachers aren't necessarily underpaid. It's a pretty cush job without a lot of stress of deadlines, problem solving, meeting of goals, etc. Plus you get massive amounts of vaca. If making $300K is important to you and you want to make it while teaching, there are ways to do it but not in the traditional teaching career path.

Some teachers believe that they should make more based on seniority, education, etc. That may be true in some cases but it doesn't men that getting a PHD in Literature and whatever teaching degree should catapult you into a new financial stratosphere. Schools sell the idea that if you get X degree then you will get X financial rewards. The reality is that it is only the cost of entry into the profession. You then have to take the necessary steps to earn your desired income. It could be going after high paying jobs or properly starting your own business.

I use teaching as an example but the same goes for any other profession. A high school educated receptionist believes that she should make more money because she's been doing it for 10 years even without a increase in valuable skills. You are generally paid what you are worth. There are always outliers but it doesn't change the reality.

Most education courses are a scam.

[juansavage1]

Absolutely, if you go into teaching high school students you shouldn't be surprised by the pay. IMO, teachers aren't necessarily underpaid. It's a pretty cush job without a lot of stress of deadlines, problem solving, meeting of goals, etc. Plus you get massive amounts of vaca. If making $300K is important to you and you want to make it while teaching, there are ways to do it but not in the traditional teaching career path.

Some teachers believe that they should make more based on seniority, education, etc. That may be true in some cases but it doesn't men that getting a PHD in Literature and whatever teaching degree should catapult you into a new financial stratosphere. Schools sell the idea that if you get X degree then you will get X financial rewards. The reality is that it is only the cost of entry into the profession. You then have to take the necessary steps to earn your desired income. It could be going after high paying jobs or properly starting your own business.

I use teaching as an example but the same goes for any other profession. A high school educated receptionist believes that she should make more money because she's been doing it for 10 years even without a increase in valuable skills. You are generally paid what you are worth. There are always outliers but it doesn't change the reality.

Teaching can be cushy or a very stressful experience, although most of that stress isn't from fear of losing your job. Sometimes I wish i could only deal with adults.

[ABC]

Most education courses are a scam.

 

What do you mean exactly?

[ABC]

Teaching can be cushy or a very stressful experience, although most of that stress isn't from fear of losing your job. Sometimes I wish i could only deal with adults.

 

I'm having trouble following.

[ABC]

Not that I've always followed my own advice but since high school my best friend and I would always say, "work hard and good things will happen."

Generally, everything I have I earned and everything i don't have, i don't deserve.

 

 

It's not about deserving. It's about having a clear picture of what you want and understanding that there are ways to attain your goals. Not everyone has the same goals.

[mtangelsfan]

What's your formula?

 

In my perfect world, the amount of education needed to teach would be drastically reduced and time spent schooling would focus way more on the area of education the teacher wanted to work at.

 

Only require a high school diploma and then some specialized schooling for whatever subject they want to teach. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

People complain when they chase low paying careers when all the information about industry trajectories and expected income is available to them. If you want to teach grade school or become a dance instructor you can make great money and there people to model. Same with any other profession.

In the end it comes down to sales skills. If you don't want to sell then learn a skill that is in high demand and employers are willing to pay well for it. Don't become a liberal arts major and take any job that'll have you. This country needs STEM educated workers. So much so that we are importing them from countries that take education more seriously.

agree absolutely. Was gonna mention that about nursing and the phillipines but figured i had already blabbered too much

A guy i know came to this country 5 years ago with less than $100. Went out first day here and started applying to every fast food place he saw. When he was walking around he saw a ROP office. Went inside, started paperwork to get a grant, now makes probably 80K a year as a rad tech.

Like you said, people need to figure out a plan in their earlyw 20s of what theyre going to do. We all want fun jobs...most successful jobs arent "fun". And too many people are too lazy to start at the bottom, have no life when theyre young while they go to school and juggle one or two jobs. Someone else out there is always willing to

[ten ocho recon scout]

To piggyback that, I'm not sure that people know what they want or what they value. If making a lot of money is something that is important to you, it should impact your decision making. To your point CF8, I feel like too many people "want" to make $150K/year but don't ever take steps in their life that makes that a realistic target.

yep. And how many people choose to not buy a new car, too much house, or some other toy vs investing extra money? If you took the same $30K a new car costs, and put it into a high yield investment with a 6 percent interest, look what youd have in 15 years.

A big part of that i think is the failure of our schools to teach real economics. Obviously we take it in high school, but its not even a full year class. Certain cultures are very wise to teach their kids about investing, and spending on things that make money.

[ten ocho recon scout]

CF8, i disagree about teaching, in terms of saying it isnt stressful. Teachers today are dealing with the failures at home, so not only are they having to deal with slower kids (not because they were born defective, but because their parents never taught them fundamentals before they got to school) as well as what juan savage is talking about in breakdown of morals (which again, starts in the home).

I agree with you about teachers wanting more money when they havent increased their job skills. Same as cops, firfighters, nurses, etc etc (any job). Im of the belief as long as youre making a fair wage, youre not owed more being that its your choice to stay or leave for greener pastures.

Switching gears, i also think theres been a shift in what defines middle class. I assume (too young to say for sure) that in the "wonder years", middle class homes had one car that they drove into the ground. They owned one tv (which obviously were a lot more expensive). And the only "toys" kids had were sports equipment, dolls, comic books and things like that. Id also assume the kids had "a" jacket, a few pairs of levis and a pair of converse.

Today, the middle class has all kinds of materialistic things. Except in the really low economies like appalachia, the south, the desert, etc, even the lower classes have these things. Every dumpy apartment i go to, which has roaches crawling everywhere, usually has an SUV in the parking spot, a giant tv, an xbox and smart phones. Lots of jordans, etc etc. Youd also be suprised how many of these homes has a single income, and ine that doesnt pay anything much to begin with.

So i think again, its a failure on us as a culture to learn to invest our money and make a better life a decade down the road

[wopphil]

What do you guys consider a good income for someone living in socal? $75? $100? $150? More? How much income should be saved and invested?

[wopphil]

I have to review personnel and payroll records on occasion as part of my job. I am shocked at the amount of money some people make. Want to get wealthy? Become a mechanic for the ILWU.

[Adam]

What do you guys consider a good income for someone living in socal? $75? $100? $150? More? How much income should be saved and invested?

Single - $60K should be plenty

Married - $125K +$25K for each kiddo

[Brandon]

Having done mortgages for 15 years, I'm always amazed at some of the income/job title combos I come across.

 

If you want to make bank, outside of traditional methods like doctors, lawyers, and owning your own financial service company.....work in or for a government entity.

[Brandon]

Single - $60K should be plenty

Married - $125K +$25K for each kiddo

 

Depends on the part of SoCal.

 

60k in Rialto, fine. 60k in Irvine.....you're driving a 15 year old Honda, only eat out on pay days, and have quite a bit of credit card debt.

[ABC]

I've met and know many people who are HS educated or earned degree with a silly major that pull in over $200K at low skill and blue collar jobs. Sometimes people are at the right place at the right time and ride the wave. Specific examples: Auto Smog Tech, Airport Skycap, many Gov't Employees, etc.

 

I knew one guy who was a voice over talent for a major brand pulling $600K. He wasn't very good at his job either but kept his gig for over a decade.

[Brandon]

Reminds me of one dude I came across recently. Biggest douchey asshole (the kind of dipshit that wants to tell you how liquid he is but his credit is mediocre and he's haggling over standard figures). Dude was a stunt double, dude make bank and only got into the line of work a few years ago.....he was in something completely different and random for many years before, I want to say accounting. Dude had a couple awards on his IMDB page.

 

Quite the dick, but had a 2-3 mil home in Brentwood.

[ten ocho recon scout]

What do you guys consider a good income for someone living in socal? $75? $100? $150? More? How much income should be saved and invested?

good question. Depends where in socal i guess. OC vs say LA or IE. West LA vs south LA etc.

As far as savings/investment, ive read suggestions that are crazy, like 40 percent of take home. Thats silly. But i would suggest at least 20 percent (tske home). The importsnt thing is invedting it well. I think the majority of people gonwith a basic savings account. Im not real knowledgable as far as stocks or anything, but i have a 401K i pay into. I have a friend whos a financial advisor but ive never sat down and taken his advice. Keep putting it on the to do list but am flaky as hell.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Having done mortgages for 15 years, I'm always amazed at some of the income/job title combos I come across.

If you want to make bank, outside of traditional methods like doctors, lawyers, and owning your own financial service company.....work in or for a government entity.

insurance sales too. Ive got a few buddies in that industry that kill it. Hospital work. Edison pays amazing. Oil companies in the harbor area. Longshoreman are the most well paid ive come accross

[ABC]

Teaching has to be shitty because kids suck and teens are awful human beings, but they get more time off than the French. When looking at their salaries basically times it by another 50% if they worked the no time off grind like most Americans. Than those salaries don't look to shabby.

But we're all programmed to kiss teacher ass like we are firemen, so nobody talks about that.

 

you've gotta be kidding.

[Tank]

I've met and know many people who are HS educated or earned degree with a silly major that pull in over $200K at low skill and blue collar jobs. Sometimes people are at the right place at the right time and ride the wave. Specific examples: Auto Smog Tech, Airport Skycap, many Gov't Employees, etc.

 

I knew one guy who was a voice over talent for a major brand pulling $600K. He wasn't very good at his job either but kept his gig for over a decade.

Sky caps making $200k? Okay.

[ABC]

Sky caps making $200k? Okay.

 

Some, yes. It's a dying gig.

 

Many airlines now use a vendor and because the way it is set up they aren't raking it in. Some skycaps are being phased out by machines. The ones employed by the airlines have a chance to make 200K+. You have to pick up extra shifts, work long hours and work the traveler (something almost all teachers wouldn't know jack shit about). 

 

I know a skycap personally and he can come home with $1K+ on his best days and well over 200K/yr. He has developed relationships with frequent travelers who call before they show up and drop a Benjamin for checking in his golf clubs.  Same with strippers. Same with pro athletes. Same with drug dealers. He has college sports teams who need two dedicated skycaps to checkin dozens of crates and bags. Same with musicians.

 

You'd think this is a fancy airline but it isn't. Yeap, it's the one we've all flown.

 

His co-workers cruise to 100K/yr working the general traveler and normal working week hours. Tax free tips. So what would they have to make in salary to take home that number? Oh, and kick ass benefits while flying around the world for almost nothing.

 

It's a taxing job both physically and mentally. You are moving bags and seeing thousands of people daily with hoards of cars passing by your station constantly.

 

The best thing about the job is that there aren't the stresses of an office job where a project going south on you or your sales numbers plummeting give you sleepless nights, an ulcer and a possible boot out the door. Once you clock out as a skycap, your day is done. 

 

Generally, teachers don't really participate in the real world where you need to hustle to get ahead. They are the types who tend to stay within the lines and cry about it. They get more degrees and certifications that don't add to their skills but they think they now deserve more cash. Many do noble work but it is repetitive and they aren't responsible for innovation. There is no innovate or die. Or hustle or get passed up in teaching on the level for most jobs and careers. Most teachers are clueless about teaching and clueless about how to handle children. There are some brilliant teachers and they can make a difference in a child's life but they are rare. I don't blame poor education on the teachers, however. It's 99% on the parents.

 

Don't be cheap and tip your skycap because he might have a mortgage in Manhattan Beach to pay for before his back gives out or gets replaced by a robot. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by CF8

[ABC]

insurance sales too. Ive got a few buddies in that industry that kill it. Hospital work. Edison pays amazing. Oil companies in the harbor area. Longshoreman are the most well paid ive come accross

 

Insurance and real estate/mortgage sales have some high earners. Most are broke but there are a quite a few making sick money. Many have no college education. The reality of those industries is that you build your own business. It is a true measure of hustle or die.

 

I used to know bartenders and waitresses pulling in $120K. Getting in the right place within the service industry that is heavy on tips can be lucrative. Unfortunately, the jobs come and go. And it's hard to build a family life when you're working evenings and weekends.