Never overpay for defense

[mram197]

The guy is not a superstar but people are talking superstar money like this is Manny Ramirez, Trout, Puljols or Griffey Jr in their prime as free agents. Ridiculous.

He is talented, but not at the level to carry the Cardinals last season. But people want to point to his WAR. You never overpay for great defense...only great offense. If you subtract this guys overinflated defensive WAr, you get a $9 to $10 a year player.

There are other options. Explore trading Santiago to the pirates for Polanco, or to the snacks for use yasmany tomas or Marlins for yelich or to the cubs for soler.

[TroutField]

First, there are 85 threads discussing Heyward. Second, defense and pitching wins games when grouped with a decent offense. Last, how the hell do you believe Santiago could net us somebody like Yelich or Tomas.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AngelintheTroutfield

[HaloNArizona]

Angels in left field last year:

 

Batting Average: .216

OBP: .275

OPS: .592

HR: 9

RBI: 51

 

Heyward:

BA: .293

OBP: .359

OPS: .797

HR: 13

RBI: 60

OWar: 3.9

 

I could see him either batting leadoff, or more than likely in the three spot:

 

Calhoun

Trout

Heyward

Pujols

Murphy (in my dream slot)

Cron

[halosfan1970]

The guy is not a superstar but people are talking superstar money like this is Manny Ramirez, Trout, Puljols or Griffey Jr in their prime as free agents. Ridiculous.

He is talented, but not at the level to carry the Cardinals last season. But people want to point to his WAR. You never overpay for great defense...only great offense. If you subtract this guys overinflated defensive WAr, you get a $9 to $10 a year player.

There are other options. Explore trading Santiago to the pirates for Polanco, or to the snacks for use yasmany tomas or Marlins for yelich or to the cubs for soler.

 

You may or may not have a point about the value of defense in determining a player's overall contribution, but your trade valuation of Santiago is way off. Santiago returning Yelich or Soler is fantasy.

[zenmaster]

The market is out of control. The players are simply being paid at their current market value. The whole scale is just higher than it has ever been.

[Broad Street]

Angels in left field last year:

Batting Average: .216

OBP: .275

OPS: .592

HR: 9

RBI: 51

Heyward:

BA: .293

OBP: .359

OPS: .797

HR: 13

RBI: 60

OWar: 3.9

I could see him either batting leadoff, or more than likely in the three spot:

Calhoun

Trout

Heyward

Pujols

Murphy (in my dream slot)

Cron

In the 3 spot? No way, you want that OBP in front of Trout.

[Mark68]

Run prevention is as important and worth just as much as run scoring.

 

Kinda hard to lose games in which you give up zero runs.

[nikkachez]

I cannot take the guy seriously, who honestly thinks Santiago gets Polanco or even gets the Marlins attention for Yelich. In fact, I should take everything you say the opposite way. Soooo you should overpay for defense.

[mram197]

I'm not picking on his obp, but instead his home runs and rbi. The guy is 6'4" and hits like he's a middle inf. Heck if you want bop and versitlity pay zobrist.

As to me overhauling Santiago, I think you guys undervalue him. Cost controlled young pitching is gold. You may have noticed some of the outrageous money thrown at average pitchers the last few years.

[mram197]

Obp not bop. And overvalue not overhaul

[Mark68]

The Angels were 6th in the AL in home runs but 12th in runs scored. We don't need home run hitters. We need guys to be on base when there are home runs.

 

Outside of Trout, nobody had an OBP higher than Freese's .323. That's a problem. One that Heyward will help solve.

[HaloNArizona]

In the 3 spot? No way, you want that OBP in front of Trout.

I thought of that originally, over the last three years his numbers have been:

 

Leadoff: .280/.355/.782

#3: .308/.390/.848

 

Full disclosure, he has 500+ AB's as a lead off hitter and about 120 AB's in the  three spot.

[totdprods]

Garret Anderson's career-high for HRs by age age 26 was 16.

Because of his size and ability to put the bat on the ball, I would not be surprised if Heyward became a 25-30 HR guy in the prime of this deal, especially if he had Trout, Pujols, Calhoun, and Cron hitting behind him.

 

And even if he stayed in 15-20 HR range, he provides enough elsewhere to be worth it.

 

So tired of sink or swim players I'd almost rather pay $20m+ for a consistent player over a huge 'impact' player.

Edited December 4, 2015 by totdprods

[bloodbrother]

This team has enough power. The issue is outside of Trout last season, no Angel regular had an OBP% ABOVE .323. That's how the team ended up with 2 40 HR guys who finished with UNDER 100 RBI for the season.

 

Heyward and his approach would certainly help their run scoring capabilities and personally I don't think he's maxed out his offensive potential. He's entering his age 26 season

[HaloNArizona]

I'm not picking on his obp, but instead his home runs and rbi. The guy is 6'4" and hits like he's a middle inf. Heck if you want bop and versitlity pay zobrist.

As to me overhauling Santiago, I think you guys undervalue him. Cost controlled young pitching is gold. You may have noticed some of the outrageous money thrown at average pitchers the last few years.

I agree Santiago is a trade piece, I think he could bring something decent in return...but your concern as a GM....

 

Pre All star break: 3.19 ERA

Post All star break: 4.20

 

He is a sub .500 pitcher is yet to pitch 200 innings

[gotbeer]

This team has enough power. The issue is outside of Trout last season, no Angel regular had an OBP% ABOVE .323. That's how the team ended up with 2 40 HR guys who finished with UNDER 100 RBI for the season.

 

Heyward and his approach would certainly help their run scoring capabilities and personally I don't think he's maxed out his offensive potential. He's entering his age 26 season

 

Angels OBP last season.  .307 ranked 26

Angels SLG last season.  .396 ranked 20

 

We really need both.

[nikkachez]

Oh and there's the "RBI" mention. Yeesh.

[Mark68]

Angels OBP last season.  .307 ranked 26

Angels SLG last season.  .396 ranked 20

 

We really need both.

Heyward's OBP last season: .359

Heyward's Slg last season: .439

 

33 doubles and 4 triples to go along with 13 bombs.

 

I think he'll do nicely.

[gotbeer]

Heyward's OBP last season: .359

Heyward's Slg last season: .439

 

33 doubles and 4 triples to go along with 13 bombs.

 

I think he'll do nicely.

 

Not for the price.

[gotbeer]

Especially a sub .800 hitter getting that amount.

[Mark68]

Not for the price.

That's the market. You either pay the price, or you resign yourself to missing the playoffs again.

[HaloNArizona]

IF you can add a guy like Heyward, what does that do for a guy like Calhoun.  I think Kole was pressing last year, especially with the struggles of Albert and at times Trout.  Heyward would take some pressure off of the entire line up.  I like a line up with Heyward in it....

[Chris]

did someone say snacks?

[AngelsFanSince86]

I'm not picking on his obp, but instead his home runs and rbi. The guy is 6'4" and hits like he's a middle inf. Heck if you want bop and versitlity pay zobrist.

As to me overhauling Santiago, I think you guys undervalue him. Cost controlled young pitching is gold. You may have noticed some of the outrageous money thrown at average pitchers the last few years.

 

So you totally disregard defense even though defense is extremely valuable, particularly in a pitchers park.  And then you judge him on HR and RBI.  First off, RBI is a team stat.  Second, by your criteria Pujols is still a top 10 player in baseball.

 

And finally, Heyward ranked 30th in fangraphs total offense stat. Considering he was only 25 last year and had one of his best offensive season, it isn't a stretch to believe he will progress as a hitter.  We could very well see some 7-8 WAR seasons from him.  But yeah his RBI total wasn't great so I guess he sucks...

[Brent Maguire]

9-10 million dollars per year for Heyward?! Have you seen the market?

 

Also, the idea that you don't pay for defense is silly. Look what Crawford and Ellsbury got just recently. Not comparing Heyward to those 2 because Heyward's age makes his case much better but teams have payed for defense 1st guys in just the very close past.