Some advice for the Angels new GM from another GM

[Stradling]

I think Moreno liked the idea of having stability, it probably helped him in other facets of his business dealings.  I like Scioscia, but I don't think I would have set a prescedence and given him or any other manager a ten year contract. 

[m0nkey]

Notti, I am sorry but I have lost a lot of respect for your opinions if you think Ken Rosenthal is making things up to get web hits.

That's just ridiculous.

Aha. You're all in it together!

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Give me your list of managers that you think will be available next season that want to manage. Then compare their resume to Scioscia.

 

So in other words, compare Scioscia to guys who got fired from bad teams?

[Stradling]

So in other words, compare Scioscia to guys who got fired from bad teams?

Or aren't currently employeed

[tomsred]

.....or to former players who have no coaching experience, but fans liked once so they must be qualified.

[ten ocho recon scout]

As far as the GM not having power, and scioscia being in control, can anyone look at this roster and honestly think its a scioscia blueprint?...

Scioscia wants pitching, aggressive runners, contact hitters, and defense...not exactly our bread and butter.

He DOES have the power to pick and choose who he plays, and the criticism there is warranted. But thats not unique here.

Again, for the record, im team dipoto. I liked his moves, even though some blew up on is. I dislike sosh for some of his roster management. But those of you thinking sosh ran dipo out, or that arte fired him, are wayyyy off....

[Stradling]

As far as the GM not having power, and scioscia being in control, can anyone look at this roster and honestly think its a scioscia blueprint?...

Scioscia wants pitching, aggressive runners, contact hitters, and defense...not exactly our bread and butter.

He DOES have the power to pick and choose who he plays, and the criticism there is warranted. But thats not unique here.

Again, for the record, im team dipoto. I liked his moves, even though some blew up on is. I dislike sosh for some of his roster management. But those of you thinking sosh ran dipo out, or that arte fired him, are wayyyy off....

I agree with this. If Sosh was running things he would have gone after a guy like Revere or at the very least an arm for the pen. Disar has been awful and he was a Dipoto guy. If Sosh had all the power you'd think he would have brought in Roeneke when he was available.

[beatlesrule]

The quote doesn't say he has all the power but Scioscia has the most power out of any manager.

[tennischmp]

As far as the GM not having power, and scioscia being in control, can anyone look at this roster and honestly think its a scioscia blueprint?...

Scioscia wants pitching, aggressive runners, contact hitters, and defense...not exactly our bread and butter.

He DOES have the power to pick and choose who he plays, and the criticism there is warranted. But thats not unique here.

The GM should also have the power to pick the coaching staff, which he didn't.

 

 

Again, for the record, im team dipoto. I liked his moves, even though some blew up on is. I dislike sosh for some of his roster management. But those of you thinking sosh ran dipo out, or that arte fired him, are wayyyy off....

Not really way off. It's possible that they each had power in their respected positions but Dipoto never liked Scioscia or wanted him here but Arte did. He never liked that Scioscia didn't use much analytics and it finally boiled over. One had to go and it wasn't going to be Scioscia.

[Homebrewer]

And Scioscia never liked Dipoto from the get-go.

Remember the scowls MS was shooting Dipoto when he was announced?

It was pretty obvious the distain was there from day 1. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Homebrewer

[Blarg]

Notti, I am sorry but I have lost a lot of respect for your opinions if you think Ken Rosenthal is making things up to get web hits.

That's just ridiculous.

Jeff, sorry about the delayed response I had pretty much abandoned this thread.

I have never liked Ken Rosenthal, his smug look on camera and stupid bow tie but all of those prejudices aside I don't like his style of quoting non people as sources. The sources close to management's thinking I believe was his invention which could mean any janitor in the hall or some half drunk guy at a sports bar sounding off. So ghost GM's making statements is just story telling in my book. He may have a source, it could have been Jack Z for all we know but we can't really say since there is no true attribute so I rate it no more than gossip.

You may like Ken, you may have a good working relationship with him and respect his work but I personally think he is a weasel. This is, of course, entirely from a fan perspective.

Edited August 28, 2015 by notti

[Stradling]

The quote doesn't say he has all the power but Scioscia has the most power out of any manager.

As would any manager that has been with the same club for 15 years. You either are hired and part of your contract is to have say in personnel decisions, or you gain that kind of respect during your long tenure. But yes I agree that Scioscia has the most power of any manager in baseball. It's still not the amount some of the people on here think it is.

[Inside Pitch]

With all due respect the Dodgers, if they thought he was available and wanted to bring him aboard, would give him a 5 year deal for $35MM-50MM and wouldn't think twice about it. The Phillies and Yankees would likely be willing to do the same.

 

As Stradling said he's a desirable commodity and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him opt out of his contract. It is also just as possible that he stays put as well. But there are teams that would snatch him up fast and pay him if he became a free agent manager.

 

 

Nationals -- if they get rid of Williams they strike me as a team that might want to get Scioscia...  

[Inside Pitch]

And Scioscia never liked Dipoto from the get-go.

Remember the scowls MS was shooting Dipoto when he was announced?

It was pretty obvious the distain was there from day 1. 

 

Mean girl logic at it's best...

[beatlesrule]

As would any manager that has been with the same club for 15 years. You either are hired and part of your contract is to have say in personnel decisions, or you gain that kind of respect during your long tenure. But yes I agree that Scioscia has the most power of any manager in baseball. It's still not the amount some of the people on here think it is.

 

It's enough to call the shots and have your owner always side with you.  I still have not read one article, or a quote or anything that explains why Moreno thinks Scioscia deserved a 10 year contract.  Sciosica won the World Series in 2002 and got swept last year in the first round of the playoffs after years of not even making it in. What am I missing here? What is so damn special about this guy? Bochy, has won 3 out of the last 5 WS and yet, he didn't get a 10 year contract and all the other power like Scioscia.  It makes no sense.

[Stradling]

And if Scioscia was up for a renewal of his contract now Arte wouldn't give him a 10 year contract. When he gave him the contract back in 2008 he was coming off of 5 of the last 6 years making the playoffs.

[Angel Oracle]

And with a post-season record of 5-15 from 2004-2008

[Stradling]

And with a post-season record of 5-15 from 2004-2008

If you guys want to get upset about a decision made 7 years ago go for it. I already stated why I think he did it. I think he did it because he likes stability and it was something that probably worked well for him in his other business ventures. Part of the reason you are bringing it up is because how we have looked this year, which I understand, except this roster is awful and that hardly falls at the hands of Scioscia, even with his power in the organization. We all know that Scioscia values three things: pitching, defense and aggressive baseball with speed guys. The team has one of those three, pitching, and even that has been in a slump. If Scioscia were truly calling the shots the team would be much closer to the image of the manager.

[DMVol]

If you guys want to get upset about a decision made 7 years ago go for it. I already stated why I think he did it. I think he did it because he likes stability and it was something that probably worked well for him in his other business ventures. Part of the reason you are bringing it up is because how we have looked this year, which I understand, except this roster is awful and that hardly falls at the hands of Scioscia, even with his power in the organization. We all know that Scioscia values three things: pitching, defense and aggressive baseball with speed guys. The team has one of those three, pitching, and even that has been in a slump. If Scioscia were truly calling the shots the team would be much closer to the image of the manager.

A good contract for Scioscia in 08 was fine...but not for 10 years....that was way beyond the industry market....

Agree about this team...it's not built for Scioscia's style....

[Stradling]

A good contract for Scioscia in 08 was fine...but not for 10 years....that was way beyond the industry market....

Agree about this team...it's not built for Scioscia's style....

Yea I didn't say I would have given him a 10 year contract, but I understand his reasoning. This team has never really had stability in the manager role. My guess is even the great AO if asked couldn't name every manager the team has had without having to look it up. Then again, I wouldn't put it past AO to know them all. I certainly couldn't name all of the managers sense 1979 when I started paying attention. Hell I couldn't name them all in order starting in 1990.

[Homebrewer]

<<This team has never really had stability in the manager role.>>

Very FEW teams have ever had "stability" in the manager role.

Bobby Cox was an exception, not a rule. These days players change teams like underwear. The dynamics change around the players, nobody brings in players to fit a manager. Managers need to change their style to fit the players they have, not the other way around. This is one of the main problems with Scioscia, his inability to ADAPT and CHANGE things up as the situation calls for it.

Tommy Lasorda and Walter Alston are 2 others with long tenures as managers, and while I'm not sure about Lasorda, I know for a fact that Walter Alston never had more than a 1 year contract. I think I read that Lasorda was that way also.

Giving any manager a 10 frikkin year contract just isn't done, except by an owner who doesn't understand how major league baseball works.

[DMVol]

Yea I didn't say I would have given him a 10 year contract, but I understand his reasoning. This team has never really had stability in the manager role. My guess is even the great AO if asked couldn't name every manager the team has had without having to look it up. Then again, I wouldn't put it past AO to know them all. I certainly couldn't name all of the managers sense 1979 when I started paying attention. Hell I couldn't name them all in order starting in 1990.

I'd have to think about it to name them all but I do remember the not so good old days reasonably well....I do wonder if a fresh start would be a good idea for Scioscia....because I remember the not so good old days, I would be skeptical it would be a good thing for the Angels however....

[Angel Oracle]

Bill Rigney, Lefty Phillips, Del Rice, Bobby Winkles, Dick Williams, Norm Sherry, Dave Garcia, Jim Fregosi, Gene Mauch, John McNamara, Gene Mauch again, Cookie Rojas, Moose Stubing (interim, 0-8 record), Doug Radar, Buck Rodgers (Don't remember who managed while Rodgers was recovering from bus accident in 1992.), Marcel Lacheman, Joe Maddon (interim), Terry Collins, Joe Maddon (interim again), and Mike Scioscia

 

16 fulltime managers (not including interims) in 55 seasons so far

Ten of those 16 were either fired, or resigned, during the season. 

 

All without any lookup

Edited August 28, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

Nerd (with all due respect)

But seriously AO, and I mean seriously, do you have a photographic memory? I think I have a good memory, but yours is just ridiculous.

[Stradling]

Bill Rigney, Lefty Phillips, Del Rice, Bobby Winkles, Dick Williams, Norm Sherry, Dave Garcia, Jim Fregosi, Gene Mauch, John McNamara, Gene Mauch again, Cookie Rojas, Moose Stubing (interim, 0-8 record), Doug Radar, Buck Rodgers, Marcel Lacheman, Joe Maddon (interim), Terry Collins, Joe Maddon (interim again), and Mike Scioscia

16 fulltime managers (not including interims) in 55 seasons so far

All without any lookup

Also when you say 16 full time managers in 55 seasons it doesn't sound too bad. But if you say 15 full time managers in 40 years, which is what it was, it sounds awful.