Some advice for the Angels new GM from another GM

[Homebrewer]

An organization might bring in a manager that fits a certain ballpark, because the damn thing is built out of metal and concrete and is going to be there for a long ass time. Players, on the other hand aren't...and even if a team looks one way one day, on the next day it could look totally different due to Injuries, trades, FA, drug relapses, and other things that happen to players (people).

Whenever I read the phrase " This team isn't built for Scioscia's style" it makes me spin out.

[Angel Oracle]

It's just something I've been able to do somehow.    It does help on the job to have that memory.  

 

15 managers in 40 years is definitely a lousy stat; and 16 managers in 55 years is still not great but not nearly as bad.

 

Scioscia over the past 40 years, iirc, is now tied for the 4th longest tenured manager with one team with LaRussa, only topped by Cox, Lasorda, and Anderson. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

An organization might bring in a manager that fits a certain ballpark, because the damn thing is built out of metal and concrete and is going to be there for a long ass time. Players, on the other hand aren't...and even if a team looks one way one day, on the next day it could look totally different due to Injuries, trades, FA, drug relapses, and other things that happen to players (people).

Whenever I read the phrase " This team isn't built for Scioscia's style" it makes me spin out.

Well, it is the easiest way to explain it. I agree that a manager should be flexible to the talent they have, assuming there is talent. However if a manager is wired to have his team play a certain way, then get him players that play like that. This isn't just a Scioscia thing, look at the Herzog Cardinals of the 80's. Look at Moneyball, where they fired the manager for not understanding what the GM was trying to do, it is kind of the same thing. Should Scioscia still be aggressive on the base paths with the guys he has, probably. Not because they are good runners, but they don't have anyone hitting behind them. So I guess I will say it differently, if Trout or Calhoun are coming up to bat, then maybe you hold the guy at third. Anyone else, force the action.

[Stradling]

It's just something I've been able to do somehow. It does help on the job to have that memory.

15 managers in 40 years is definitely a lousy stat; and 16 managers in 55 years is still not great but not nearly as bad.

Scioscia over the past 40 years, iirc, is now the 4th longest tenured manager with one team, only topped by LaRussa, Lasorda, and Cox.

I don't want to derail this thread, but is it instant recall? I work with a guy that remembers conversations,verbatim, he and I had when we were 17 (27 years ago). He is also a sports fan and can recall EVERYTHING, very similar to how I interpret you.

[Blarg]

Also when you say 16 full time managers in 55 seasons it doesn't sound too bad. But if you say 15 full time managers in 40 years, which is what it was, it sounds awful.

 

Remove Bill Rigney and you 15 managers in 31 years or basicly one every two years, which is even worse.

 

Here is a weird one, in 1969 Lefty Phillips took over for Rigney after another horrible start and managed the team to a 60-63 record and combined with Rigneys totals they ended up 71-91 but in 3rd place in the newly formed AL West. The following year Phillips won 16 more games for a 86-76 record but still only 3rd place.

[Angel Oracle]

Lefty Phillips was a weird hire by Dick Walsh who was just starting out as GM in 1969.

Phillips had been mainly a scout, and iirc had zero managerial/coaching experience going into 1969.

That 1970 season quickly gave way to a 76-86 record in 1971, when a lot went wrong.   Johnson's suspension, Ruiz' gun in the clubhouse, Tony C. retiring halfway through the season with 4 HRs after hitting 36 for Boston the year before, Fregosi's foot problems, all pitchers inconsistent save for 20 game winner Messersmith, etc.

 

It's not all instant recall, although quite a bit is.   

 

Regarding the aggressive baserunning, should that be the case even if the runner is very slow?

Edited August 28, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

Lefty Phillips was a weird hire by Dick Walsh who was just starting out as GM in 1969.

Phillips had been mainly a scout, and iirc had zero managerial/coaching experience going into 1969.

That 1970 season quickly gave way to a 76-86 record in 1971, when a lot went wrong. Johnson's suspension, Ruiz' gun in the clubhouse, Tony C. retiring halfway through the season with 4 HRs after hitting 36 for Boston the year before, all pitchers inconsistent save for 20 game winner Messersmith, etc.

It's not all instant recall, although quite a bit is.

Regarding the aggressive baserunning, should that be the case even if the runner is very slow?

Depends, is one of our hitters that is hitting under .200 coming up next?

[Angel Oracle]

Spots 7-9 have admittedly not helped the cause any this season, to the point that maybe just maybe there wouldn't be much if any difference between being aggressive and not being aggressive.

[Inside Pitch]

Also when you say 16 full time managers in 55 seasons it doesn't sound too bad. But if you say 15 full time managers in 40 years, which is what it was, it sounds awful.

 

Here's the kicker..   25 of the Angels 55 seasons were managed by two men....  Rigney and MS..   So it was 14 managers in 30 years in between those two guys....

[Inside Pitch]

Remove Bill Rigney and you 15 managers in 31 years or basicly one every two years, which is even worse.

 

 

Dammit I just said the same thing -- its even funnier when you consider that Mauch managed for what -- 5 seasons over two different stints?   A lot of those guys had very short tenures.

[Blarg]

The Angels had their share of interim managers, one of which is a great trivia question.

Which manager had the exact same winning percentage as batting average as a player?

Answer: Moose Stubing that was a perfect zero as a manager and player for the Angels.

[YouthofToday]

Stability in managers isn't nearly as important as stability in an organizational development philosophy and acquisition vision.

This team has been all over the map the last 10 years. They were extremely slow to embrace advanced metrics and have significantly lagged others in scouting budgets and development.

The best organizations stress this more than stability in the managers chair. A competent front office is vastly more important than having an above average manager.

The role of the manager to win games is ridiculously overrated. Players win games. Front office folks develop and acquire players.

[Stradling]

Stability in managers isn't nearly as important as stability in an organizational development philosophy and acquisition vision.

Then Jerry shouldn't have quit.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Angels are more likely to sign Mathis and Napoli Wells this offseason than MS opts out.

 

Fixed. No way that Napoli plays for Scioscia again - at least not willingly.

[Troll Daddy]

Fixed. No way that Napoli plays for Scioscia again - at least not willingly.

I don't remember any comments from Napoli against Mike .., do you?

[Stradling]

I don't remember any comments from Napoli against Mike .., do you?

Yes, Mike said playing catcher for the Angels with Mike Scioscia as the manager was not an enjoyable experience. Something along the lines of now that he ws in Texas he could just do what he naturally does. This was very early on after he was traded from the Angels to Toronto to the Rangers.

[Troll Daddy]

Yes, Mike said playing catcher for the Angels with Mike Scioscia as the manager was not an enjoyable experience. Something along the lines of now that he ws in Texas he could just do what he naturally does. This was very early on after he was traded from the Angels to Toronto to the Rangers.

I remember that ... Mike pushing him to be the best isn't really a bad thing. How does that translate into Mike not liking him? Fans just assume that's why Napoli was traded to Toronto ... the facts tell us that Arte wanted Wells or else heads were going to roll. Napoli was traded to accommodate some salary relief for talking on a big salary.

It's as simple as that ...

[YouthofToday]

Then Jerry shouldn't have quit.

Jerry resigning says something about the Angels organization or his character. I think most of us already have strong opinions as to what the issue fundamentally was.

[Angel Oracle]

And the Wells acquisition gets back again to Moreno not acting simply as a owner signing off on deals proposed by the GM. You are NOT the GM, Moreno. Leave that to those more in the know on those things. Capeesh?

Edited August 29, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

And the Wells acquisition gets back again to Moreno not acting simply as a owner signing off on deals proposed by the GM. You are NOT the GM, Moreno. Leave that to those more in the know on those things. Capeesh?

AO you realize you're bringing up things that happened five years ago like its some NEW evidence about how Arte does his job.

[Angel Oracle]

And Hamilton, just 3 years ago

For the sake of every Halos fan, I sure hope Moreno's done meddling.

[Blarg]

Yes, Mike said playing catcher for the Angels with Mike Scioscia as the manager was not an enjoyable experience. Something along the lines of now that he ws in Texas he could just do what he naturally does. This was very early on after he was traded from the Angels to Toronto to the Rangers.

 

In Texas he played less than he did with the Angels.

[beatlesrule]

Going by that reasoning, Bochy deserves a 30 year deal.

[beatlesrule]

Former Angels GM Jerry Dipoto looks likely to be a talked-about name as the many teams with vacant GM positions search for candidates, FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi writes. Dipoto appears likely to be a candidate for both the Brewers and Mariners jobs. The Mariners have said they will prioritize experience (which, obviously, Dipoto has), and Morosi notes that Dipoto was a finalist for the Mariners GM job years ago, when the team ultimately hired Zduriencik.

 

Well at least we know it won't be him again.

[Hollyw00d]

Hopefully those teams ask for shane's opinion first