Lost In The All Star Game Excitement

[Blarg]

Clayton Kershaw blew another big game. It seems to be a habit for him.

 

Discuss.

 

 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Interesting Eric. An old friend of mine called during the game last night and we were talking hypotheticals.

He asked me if Trout suffered a horrific tragedy and never played again, would he be an HOFer. I said no.

He's a dodger fan and believed that Kersgaw would be if he suffered the same hypothetical fate.

Then we got into a debate over his three Cy Youngs and how he felt that was such a hallowed club that that would deem immediate entry.

I looked around and reminded him of Lincecum's two Cy Young awards and how mediocre of a career he ended up having.

Kershaw certainly has been dominant but his record is 106-55 or something with a 2.55. He's not Koufax yet. Ultimately there are very few sill active sure things for the HOF (Albert, ichiro, and probably Cabrera - Arod obviously isn't getting there despite the numbers.)

However it was great to see the halos score the runs off the Dodgers pitchers.

Now they need to do that in inter league play and take some real wins.

[laagamer]

Interesting Eric. An old friend of mine called during the game last night and we were talking hypotheticals.

He asked me if Trout suffered a horrific tragedy and never played again, would he be an HOFer. I said no.

He's a dodger fan and believed that Kersgaw would be if he suffered the same hypothetical fate.

Then we got into a debate over his three Cy Youngs and how he felt that was such a hallowed club that that would deem immediate entry.

I looked around and reminded him of Lincecum's two Cy Young awards and how mediocre of a career he ended up having.

Kershaw certainly has been dominant but his record is 106-55 or something with a 2.55. He's not Koufax yet. Ultimately there are very few sill active sure things for the HOF (Albert, ichiro, and probably Cabrera - Arod obviously isn't getting there despite the numbers.)

However it was great to see the halos score the runs off the Dodgers pitchers.

Now they need to do that in inter league play and take some real wins.

1) A-Rod is definitely getting in eventually. 600+ HR's is a no-brainer.

2) If Kershaw does this for 2-3 more years, he will as well. And the case could be made for it now.

3) Position players usually need to play longer than pitchers in today's game to make the Hall IMO.

[Blarg]

There is no doubt Kershaw has been the best regular season pitcher of this decade. I think both him and Trout need to put in the years in order to compile a career of noteworthy success, longevity is one of the hallmarks of a great player.

Concerning though is Kershaw faltering under the bright lights. Maybe he needs some of Grienke's meds before big games.

Trout didn't seem to need any help being in the moment last night. Of course you could argue his playoff numbers, albeit only three games, stink.

Edited July 15, 2015 by notti

[Blarg]

A-Rod will suffer the fate of not just failing one ped test but gloriously blowing up his career the second time and flushing several players with him, all the while trying to sue everyone for his **** up. He is not being inducted for a long, long time.

Edited July 15, 2015 by notti

[fan_since79]

1) A-Rod is definitely getting in eventually. 600+ HR's is a no-brainer.

2) If Kershaw does this for 2-3 more years, he will as well. And the case could be made for it now.

3) Position players usually need to play longer than pitchers in today's game to make the Hall IMO.

 

He could end up with more than 700, and he's one of only four players in history with 2000+ RBI.

 

Unfortunately, he'll eventually make it to the HOF. Perhaps not first ballot (just so the voters can make a point), but he won't wait too long.

Edited July 15, 2015 by fan_since79

[ten ocho recon scout]

Kershaw is a beast. I think hes a stud. But i also think he needs to dominate like this a little longer. What about felix?..

Heres a curveball..lackey? I day no, but he was one of the better pitchers the last decade, 2 rings, very good in october. Just for argument

[Blarg]

His rings are coattails not the full suit.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

He could end up with more than 700, and he's one of only four players in history with 2000+ RBI.

Unfortunately, he'll eventually make it to the HOF. Perhaps not first ballot (just so the voters can make a point), but he won't wait too long.

There's no way he makes it first ballot. Like Eric said, it will be a very long time. Unfortunately Arod is on the same track as Rose - player support for them is abysmally low.

It's tough when your peers want to keep you out. I kept waiting for Morgan to knock Rose over the head with that cane and for Bench to start choking him.

And Eric, my comment was the same. A few more years are needed for at least Kershaw to be considered as dominant as Koufax (but he needs some rings.)

[nate]

Bonds, MacGuire, Sosa... not in the HOF.  Arod is no guarantee.

[Angelsjunky]

A career must be 10 years to be Hall of Fame eligible. Unless there is total collapse, Kershaw will have earned his placard after the 2017 season, Trout after the the 2020 or 2021 season (not sure if 2011 counts as a season).

 

By the way, Miggy is a surefire Hall of Famer if he retired today.

[fan_since79]

Lackey has about a zero percent chance of admission to the Hall. 159 wins? Forget it. His WAR is half that of an average HOF pitcher. Baseball Reference ranks him 291st among starting pitchers historically.

[Blarg]

SOTO, rings are team play not individual accomplishments. Half the guys in the Hall would not be there if it were based on jewelry.

That said his post season performance needs to improve, provided he gets the chance, to seal his hall pass without having to wait a round. Not that two or three games in the post season should negate a complete season but they should do more to validate than question.

[Angelsjunky]

Here's how I see it, among active players.

 

Already in: Alex Rodriguez (if the voters accept him), Albert Pujols, Ichiro Suzuki, Miguel Cabrera

 

Probably: Adrian Beltre, Robinson Cano

 

Borderline (maybe need a bit more stat padding): Carlos Beltran, Chase Utley, David Ortiz, Troy Tulowitzki

 

On a HoF trajectory, just need the time: Mike Trout, Andrew McCutchen, Buster Posey, Giancarlo Stanton, Bryce Harper, Clayton Kershaw, Madison Bumgarner

 

Longshots but possible; "Hall of Very Good:" Matt Holliday, David Wright, Jimmy Rollins, Mark Teixeira, Joe Mauer, Torii Hunter, Dustin Pedroia, Aramis Ramirez, Joey Votto, Ian Kinsler, Ryan Braun, Jayson Werth, Adrian Gonzalez, Yadier Molina, Victor Martinez, Jose Bautista, Prince Fielder, Jose Reyes, CC Sabathia, Tim Hudson, Mark Buehrle, Cliff Lee, Justin Verlander, Dan Haren, John Lackey, Jered Weaver, Adam Wainwright, Zach Greinke, etc

 

Pitchers are really hard to determine. I mean, Greinke has HoF talent but where do we put him? He's almost 32...if he continues like this for a few more years he has to be considered a candidate. Similarly with Max Scherzer or David Price.

[sneaky_flute]

Robinson Cano will likely join the Yankee Hall of Fame, but he's not getting into Cooperstown unless he has another 5 or 6 solid years. 

[laagamer]

Bonds, MacGuire, Sosa... not in the HOF. Arod is no guarantee.

I disagree. Steroids will not keep them out indefinitely.

As much as I'd like to see that lol

[laagamer]

Heres a curveball..lackey? I day no, but he was one of the better pitchers the last decade, 2 rings, very good in october. Just for argument

Did...did you just say Lackey is HOF worthy?

What the actual ****.

[LAA Road Tripper]

I disagree. Steroids will not keep them out indefinitely.

As much as I'd like to see that lol

My view is that ARod "might" get in sooner than the others. After doing everything wrong, he's done everything right in his rehabilitation tour. Mainly shut his mouth and produce.

[ELEVEN]

Did...did you just say Lackey is HOF worthy?

What the actual ****.

Horseshit

[ten ocho recon scout]

Did...did you just say Lackey is HOF worthy?

What the actual ****.

no, sorry, with the typo corrected it should have read i say no.

But for arguments sake, im using him as an example of someone with the hardware (2 rings that he was a very big part of) vs someone like kershaw who so far has failed in october. Meaning if that argument can keep someone out, should it get someone in?

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

My view is that ARod "might" get in sooner than the others. After doing everything wrong, he's done everything right in his rehabilitation tour. Mainly shut his mouth and produce.

As much as I like Arod, no way. There's no amount of contrition that's going to unstain all the lying and lawsuits and bs. He's barely tolerated, and only because he produces.

He was very disliked that post season he was atrocious with the hip issue, and that was pre-roid scandal.

As soon as he sucks, and that could be soon, that team, the fans and certainly his players will turn on him too.

He has a hard road of getting into the hall.

[Tank]

Continually lied about using roids. Suspended for them twice, including a full season.

He's not getting in in my lifetime or his.

[ELEVEN]

Yadier's gotta make the HOF.

I think so.

[LAA Road Tripper]

As much as I like Arod, no way. There's no amount of contrition that's going to unstain all the lying and lawsuits and bs. He's barely tolerated, and only because he produces.

He was very disliked that post season he was atrocious with the hip issue, and that was pre-roid scandal.

As soon as he sucks, and that could be soon, that team, the fans and certainly his players will turn on him too.

He has a hard road of getting into the hall.

I've never really been an ARod fan and you very well may be right. I've just been floored by his turnaround this year. I would have bet a significant amount of money that the Yankees would have either released him, he would have been a shell of himself or he would have done something stupid again to plaster his name in a negative way in every headline. None of those things happened.

[tdawg87]

Also lost in the excitement: