Angels-Phillies discussing trade...

[Angelsjunky]

Ryan Howard is a platoon DH at best. Look at his stats over the last four years. I'm not sure what he offers that Cron couldn't give us. I know Cron is struggling, but he does have upside.

[Glen]

Saying Cron is struggling is like saying King Kong was kinda big for an ape. But yeah, Howard has warning flags. The Phillies are obviously gonna try to sell as high as they can get.

[fan_since79]

Howard, last 17 games:

 

.344 BA, .639 SLG, 1.024 OPS, 4 HR, 10 RBI

[AngelStew43]

The more we'd take of Howard's $$$, the less we'd give up for Revere.  Open the LF spot up for Revere by including Cowgill in the deal.

[Cdaniel]

Ryan Howard is a platoon DH at best. Look at his stats over the last four years. I'm not sure what he offers that Cron couldn't give us. I know Cron is struggling, but he does have upside.

He was hurt in 2012 and 2013. If we are paying him 4-5 mil a year I don't see the downside.

[Reveille1984]

And he won't be hurt in 2015?  He's 35.  He wasn't hurt in 2014 and had a .690 OPS.  The downside is he sucks ass for the next two years and continues his awesome trend of putting up negative WAR seasons.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Reveille1984

[Cdaniel]

And he won't be hurt in 2015? He's 35. The downside is he sucks ass for the next two years and continues his awesome trend of putting up negative WAR seasons.

.

Being able to DH will keep him healthy hopefully.

[Chuck]

Ryan Howard is a platoon DH at best. Look at his stats over the last four years. I'm not sure what he offers that Cron couldn't give us. I know Cron is struggling, but he does have upside.

 

I'd be happy with a Howard/Green platoon at DH. 

[SoWhat]

I'd do it for someone like McGowin or DeLoach. Please just do not give up Ellis, Rhoades or Smith.

[Dave Saltzer]

Just what we need: another low OBP player.

 

Revere has speed, which is nice, considering that Trout is the only Angel with more than 2 SB. But his lifetime line of .289/.322/.340 leaves much to be desires, especially of a leadoff man.

 

One of my critiques of Jerry is that he seems to undervalue OBP. sure, the .290ish BA and 40+ SB a year is sexy, but all things being equal I'd rather see him go after a .270 hitter with a .350 OBP.

I can guarantee you that Dipoto does not undervalue OBP. It's just not that easy to find that these days, and if you do, it's expensive as all hell in most cases.

[tdawg87]

How about we stay the hell away from the Phillies and go talk to the Brewers' GM about Lind and Gerardo Parra/Khris Davis?

Edited May 21, 2015 by tdawg87

[Chuck]

How about we stay the hell away from the Phillies and go talk to the Brewers' GM about Lind and Gerardo Parra/Khris Davis?

 

I like Lind and think he can be had for relatively cheap, but Parra is a slightly better lefthanded version of Cowgill. Great arm and defense. Not much power, decent speed.

[tdawg87]

Still better than anything we are currently throwing out there. He's also better than Revere.

[Second Base]

I think we're seeing a lot of knee-jerk reactions here and there are a few things to point out.

1. Ben Revere is BETTER than Matt Joyce. He hits for a higher average, plays better defense and gives the Angels some much needed speed. You can complain all you want about his lack of power or OBP but he's am above average player in his physical prime making a reasonably low salary.

2. The trade market is EXPENSIVE. They aren't buying a slim jim from the dollar store, they're buying an organic grass fed beef stick from Whole Foods. When you trade, especially this time of year, you overpay. Remember how much getting Street from the Padres cost? How about a few offseasons ago when we acquired Iannetta? It cost Chatwood, who was a former top prospect and held his own in the majors at a young age. He was brilliant in Colorado, but injuries happen.

Something between those two is essentially the price Revere rightfully should be. The Phillies probably ask for Tropeano and Bedrosian. Angels counter with Jeremy Rhoades, plus a RP with upside like Danny Reynolds. The middle point that may work for both sides might be a lottery ticket Victor Alcantara and one if our solid lefties like Nate Smith.

Reasonably, that's two of our top 10 prospects. Amaro us notorious for jacking up the prices in everything because as I said of many GM's, he's an egomaniac, he might decline, but I doubt they get a better offer than that anywhere else, and I doubt Revere leads them to the promised land.

[Angel Oracle]

Howard, last 17 games:

.344 BA, .639 SLG, 1.024 OPS, 4 HR, 10 RBI

Trade drive (like salary drive for impending FA)

Too much Fools Gold there, plus aging slugger = no thank you

[Stradling]

AO, you can't have it all. Aging slugger on the decline costs player C. Slugger in his prime costs A, A and B. So would you rather get Aging Slugger for Tropeano or in his Prime Slugger for Newcombe, Bandy and Bedrosian?

[Second Base]

If Howard costs nothing in return and his salary is reduced to under 10 million, yeah I'd platoon him at DH. But the Phillies won't do that.

[fan_since79]

Ryan Howard, among others, looks attractive right now because the Angels are desperate for offense. With our good pitching we could go far if we only had a little more offense.

 

There's only so many 2-1 and 3-2 games we're going to win this year.

[Stradling]

Ryan Howard, among others, looks attractive right now because the Angels are desperate for offense. With our good pitching we could go far if we only had a little more offense.

There's only so many 2-1 and 3-2 games we're going to win this year.

Honestly, with our pitching we should win a ton of those games. Problem is in order to do that the starters have to go DEEP into games because we can't pitch Smith and Street every night.

[Cdaniel]

If Howard costs nothing in return and his salary is reduced to under 10 million, yeah I'd platoon him at DH. But the Phillies won't do that.

Everything I've read is the Phillies want to get rid of Howard badly and are wanting to package with another trade chip and are willing to eat a majority of his salary.

[Inside Pitch]

I like Revere, but I hope it's not for Bedrosian.

 

My concern is this -- they traded away Alex Meyer who many saw as a front line pitcher potentially at the time, I can see Amaro holding out for something along the lines of what he gave up for him.  Thing is he hasn't pitched to that level, awesome K rates, but he's always allowed baserunners.  This year he's been getting lit up in AAA, and Revere no longer had X many years of team control or low salary.  Anything more than DeLoach is likely more than he's truly worth.  Does Amaro settle for Deloach and risk the PR backlash?

 

Does anyone know if Pat Gillick is involved with the Phillies in any way?

[SoWhat]

Wasn't it Alex Meyers from the Nats for Denard Span?

Edited May 21, 2015 by SoWhat

[Glen]

It's a tale of two desperations.  The Angels are desperate for offense, and the Phillies are desperate to trade Howard.  Thing is, Howard isn't our only trade option.  Hopefully Jerry uses that leverage.

[Inside Pitch]

Howard on top of Revere?  I know we need offense, but you guys are going off the deep end. 

 

Revere can't even get on base, he's like Aybar with more speed and even less power.  Career .320 OBP, with a .302 OBP this year in almost 200 PA's.  Career 4% BB rate.  Negative UZR rating the past couple years, mediocre defensively.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see how he even remotely brings us offensive value.

 

People are buying into the names and the reputations and completely ignoring the actual production.  

 

Ryan Howard's combined triple slash lines since 2012 are .236/.309/.422...  grats on the hot streak, but he's been awful.   Both these guys are just mediocre to well below average hitters for their positions and yet people are talking about them as if they could fix what ails the Angels.

 

Do people really expect two guys who combined for a negative OPS+ in Philly to come to Anaheim and perform?

[Stradling]

Wasn't it Alex Meyers from the Nats for Denard Span?

I have no idea but I get Span and Revere mixed up