Truth about vaping

[NrM]

 

Not gonna lie, a lot of this sounds like biased crap though.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[Brandon]

Makes sense. One of the projects I use to work on recently pulled out of working with all vape stores, e-cigs, etc. (and that used to be one of the larger income sources) because of regulation and forthcoming taxes and fees to this sector.

 

A bunch of tobacco taxes/fees are going to drop on all these merchants, producers, etc. I'm guessing it will end up being like the tobacco tax they have now that adds x amount to cigarettes.

[eaterfan]

Yeah. That whole thing is bull. My dad is a research pulmonologist and was on the state board that distributes the prevention money.

Cigarettes are largely smoked by the poor who don't have private health insurance. 90% of his patients are treated on the tax payers dime. The state saves more money with people not smoking than with them smoking. States don't want kids smoking e cigarettes or whatever not because they want them to smoke cigarettes but because they think it will lead to smoking cigarettes.

I'll ask him if any good studies have come out about vaping.

Edited April 15, 2015 by eaterfan

[eaterfan]

Who is the big money in this situation?

In case people weren't aware, big tobacco owns all the e cig and vaping companies. this whole video was big tobacco arguing against the banning and taxing of these things for 2 reasons:

1. They own these products and want to see them grow.

2. It potentially leads to people getting hooked on cigarettes.

Edited April 15, 2015 by eaterfan

[NrM]

Who is the big money in this situation?

In case people weren't aware, big tobacco owns all the e cig and vaping companies. this whole video was big tobacco arguing against the banning and taxing of these things for 2 reasons:

1. They own these products and want to see them grow.

2. It potentially leads to people getting hooked on cigarettes.

 

What? You couldn't be more wrong man. Big tobacco only owns those shitty ones that they sell at the gas stations.

Not sure where you are getting your information. Probably from the same people trying to ban them.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[eaterfan]

Do they? I don't know. Would make sense but would also make sense if they didn't. How do you know?

My dad is a pulmonologist and critical care doctor who did research on lung cancer. A few years ago he was on the board of the committee that distributes the percentage of revenue that goes to education and smoking prevention. This was when big tobacco had just bought the e cig and vaping industry.

But as I said, if you think about it reasonably it didn't make much sense for the state to push cigarettes. The cost to the government to provide healthcare to smokers far outweighs whatever extra money comes in from the cigarette companies.

Aside from which a state with the 5th largest economy in the world an extra 10 million a year from cigarette companies (I'm guessing that's even a high number) isn't responsible for paying back bonds. Or is even a drop in the bucket.

[NrM]

My dad is a pulmonologist and critical care doctor who did research on lung cancer. A few years ago he was on the board of the committee that distributes the percentage of revenue that goes to education and smoking prevention. This was when big tobacco had just bought the e cig and vaping industry.

But as I said, if you think about it reasonably it didn't make much sense for the state to push cigarettes. The cost to the government to provide healthcare to smokers far outweighs whatever extra money comes in from the cigarette companies.

Aside from which a state with the 5th largest economy in the world an extra 10 million a year from cigarette companies (I'm guessing that's even a high number) isn't responsible for paying back bonds. Or is even a drop in the bucket.

 

You are so damn wrong eaterfan. Big Tobacco has no say in Ecigs. They intentionally sell crap so people will go back to regular cigs.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[eaterfan]

They own a very high percentage of the total e-cig sales and are increasing their vapor holdings and market share. There was an article somewhere (maybe the WSJ) last summer.

[NrM]

They own a very high percentage of the total e-cig sales and are increasing their vapor holdings and market share. There was an article somewhere (maybe the WSJ) last summer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette#History

 

Tobacco manufacturers initially dismissed electronic cigarettes as a fad; however, the purchase of the US brand blu eCigs by US tobaccomanufacturer Lorillard for $135 million in April 2012 signaled their entry into the market.[149] A national US advertising campaign starredSteven Dorff exhaling a "thick flume" of what the ad describes as 'vapor, not tobacco smoke', exhorting smokers with the message "Weare all adults here, it's time to take our freedom back."[149] Jason Healy, founder of blu, called the product "a lifestyle brand forsmokers".[149] The ads, occurring against the backdrop of longstanding prohibition of tobacco advertising on television, were criticized byorganizations such as Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids as undermining anti-tobacco efforts.[149] Cynthia Hallett of Americans for Non-Smokers' Rights described the US advertising campaign as attempting to "re-establish a norm that smoking is okay, that smoking isglamorous and acceptable".

 

[149] University of Pennsylvania communications professor Joseph Cappella suggested that the sight ofDorff's exhaled "smoke" would induce tobacco smokers to consume cigarettes, even as the setting of the ad near an ocean was meant tosuggest an association of clean air with the nicotine product.[149] The blu brands was purchased by Imperial Tobacco in July 2014.[150]Big tobacco companies have purchased some e-cigarette businesses and greatly increased their marketing efforts.

 

[10] As of 2014 e-cigarette devices are mostly manufactured in China.[4]

In the US there are over a hundred small e-cigarette businesses, with about 70% of the market held by 10 businesses.[15] A sizable shareof the e-cigarette business is done on the internet.[72] The majority of e-cigarette businesses have their own homepage andapproximately 30–50% of total e-cigarettes sales are handled on the internet in respect to English-language websites.[72] A 2014 reviewstated that e-cigarettes are aggressively promoted, mostly via the internet, as a healthy alternative to smoking in the US.

 

[72] According toNielsen Holdings, convenience store e-cigarette sales in the US went down for the first time during the four-week period ending on 10May 2014. This decline is attributed by Wells Fargo analyst Bonnie Herzog to a shift in consumers behavior, buying more specializeddevices or what she refers to as "vapor/tank/mods (VTMs)" that are not tracked by Neilsen.[151] According to Herzog these products,produced and sold by stand alone makers are now (2014) growing 2 times faster than traditional electronic cigarettes marketed by themajor players (Lorillard, Logic Technology, NJOY etc...) and account for a third of the 2.2 billion dollar market in the US for vaporproducts.[152]

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[NrM]

They own a very high percentage of the total e-cig sales and are increasing their vapor holdings and market share. There was an article somewhere (maybe the WSJ) last summer.

 

That article would be wrong and whoever wrote it should be fired. 

They were probably using it as a scare tactic.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[Vegas Halo Fan]

In the US there are over a hundred small e-cigarette businesses, with about 70% of the market held by 10 businesses.

 

I could probably find a hundred places that sell them within 20 miles of my house.

[NrM]

In the US there are over a hundred small e-cigarette businesses, with about 70% of the market held by 10 businesses.

 

I could probably find a hundred places that sell them within 20 miles of my house.

 

I think they meant the top selling brands that people buy at the vape shops or online.

 

Eleaf, Innokin, Provari ext...(none of them owned by big tobacco) 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Poozy

[arch stanton]

I love that people are actually seeking out new ways to become nicotine addicts. Bravo

[nate]

Science - http://www.popsci.com/article/science/e-cigarettes-not-harmless-should-be-regulated-cigs-study-says

[Brandon]

All the manufacturers and merchants I worked with in the vaping industry were independent and not big tobacco.

[Brandon]

I love that people are actually seeking out new ways to become nicotine addicts. Bravo

Actually the opposite. Most of the stores I went to in OC were customers weening off cigarettes. You can scale down nicotine consumption with vaping unlike cigarettes.

[arch stanton]

The success rate for weening off tobacco is close to nil. You either quit or you don't. And what of those whose first nicotine exposure is e-cig?

[nate]

Actually the opposite. Most of the stores I went to in OC were customers weening off cigarettes. You can scale down nicotine consumption with vaping unlike cigarettes.

 

Yeah that has already proven to be false.  They were originally marketed for this but studies found that they were very ineffective.

[stevestevens]

Eater, Big Tobacco has a place in the business but the big boom right now is from the internet sales by people who are mixing their own juices with nicotine and then selling it.  Basically sno cone flavors are getting into the nicotine delivery business.  Having said that, Big Tobacco likes the idea of anyone getting addicted to Nicotine so they do promote the usage of the product.  

 

Brandon, no one is using this product to ween off of Nicotine.  The bottom line is that this is a new product.  Vaping is exploding with teenagers.  They are the first teenage generation to start to really use this in large quantity.  We have no idea what lifestyle and health effects this will lead to when they get into their 20's and become adults.  It will be very interesting to watch.  For those that say that this is healthy......our body has zero need for Nicotine.  It is not an essential nutrient in anyway for our body.  Time has continually shown that when we continually intake something into our body that is not needed it causes problems.  The one positive is that their is no secondhand smoke for others to inhale. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Can't we just all agree that anyone using those looks like a douchebag anyway. It amazes me how glued to the lips they can be.

If I offended you I'm sorry. That goes to anyone else here who likes Ed Hardy, Affliction, TapOut, Victor's mom and anything else trendy.

[Brandon]

No need to reply individually.

I had to visit these stores and in the process speak with merchants and customers. They would talk about going from two packs a day to the highest nicotine dosage and where they were now on a lower dosage.

So no, it's not scientifically false nor did I say it led to people quitting...they are going to smoke something regardless. This is just a healthier alternative to chemically laced cigarettes and doesn't smell like shit.

Vaping has only been big for the past three years, so any scientific study or concrete opinions are absurd.

[Glen]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Soto is correct.

[nate]

No need to reply individually.

I had to visit these stores and in the process speak with merchants and customers. They would talk about going from two packs a day to the highest nicotine dosage and where they were now on a lower dosage.

So no, it's not scientifically false nor did I say it led to people quitting...they are going to smoke something regardless. This is just a healthier alternative to chemically laced cigarettes and doesn't smell like shit.

Vaping has only been big for the past three years, so any scientific study or concrete opinions are absurd.

 

Lol, dude you are so far off.

 

The vapor still contains chemicals that we have known about for decades and have studied the effects on humans for decades.

 

People that "quit" using e cigs have a super high rate of going back to smoking within 3 months.  Other methods are far more successful.  Chantix being the most successful.

[TobiasFunke]

Can't we just all agree that anyone using those looks like a douchebag anyway. It amazes me how glued to the lips they can be.

If I offended you I'm sorry. That goes to anyone else here who likes Ed Hardy, Affliction, TapOut, Victor's mom and anything else trendy.

Just the term "vape" makes me cringe

[Brandon]

I'm off that vapes are a healthier alternative to actual cigarettes?

Maybe people don't give two shits about quitting but want a healthier alternative?

Stop being an elitist dick head again or mince my words. I don't smoke or care about people that do. Dumbfounds me that you try to negate posters here with knowledge of various industries or that have better knowledge of topics than you do.