How do you fix this team?

[Docwaukee]

case in point

gm 1 - great pen W

gm 2 - downs gets the loss

gm 4 - downs gets the loss

gm 6 - pen enters down 4-3.  Makes it 7-3.  game over

gm 7 - pen comes in up 5-4.  Lose 9-5

gm 8 - pen enters down 5-4 and makes it 10-4.  game over

gm 9 - pen enters down 3-1 and an inning later, it 6-1.  game over

 

the pen has played a major role in 7 of our 9 games. We are 1-6 in those games.   

[bloodbrother]

case in point

gm 1 - great pen W

gm 2 - downs gets the loss

gm 4 - downs gets the loss

gm 6 - pen enters down 4-3.  Makes it 7-3.  game over

gm 7 - pen comes in up 5-4.  Lose 9-5

gm 8 - pen enters down 5-4 and makes it 10-4.  game over

gm 9 - pen enters down 3-1 and an inning later, it 6-1.  game over

 

the pen has played a major role in 7 of our 9 games. We are 1-6 in those games.   

 

Halos had a lead in game 4 as well. 2-1. Richards served up the game tying HR in the 7th, then Downs blew it in the 8th. 2 BS for the pen already on the season

[HaloCharacter]

Real Answer: Scioscia HAS to go.  That's where you start.  Then, you find some fire and get hot.

 

Fun Answer: I heard Ryan Madson threw 30 pitches today.

[Reveille1984]

I think there's a little more to it than just "we should have "gotten" Greinke".  Free agency isn't the old Walmart down the street where you know how much you're gonna pay for everything and there's more than enough for everyone.  The Dodgers are paying him $160M for 6 years.... were we really going to exceed that and pay Greinke $27-28M a year?  And even if we wanted to, you don't think the Dodgers would have countered?  

 

Free agent options for starters are getting worse every year as teams continue to lock up young pitching.  Which is why it's imperative that we starting drafting some decent arms that actually pan out.

[ispy45]

Remember the days we would win games with a weak line up and a solid bullpen. Those were the days.. People complaining about not having a big bat...

[Docwaukee]

The bullpen is fine if they didn't have to pitch 4 innings a game.

the pen has pitched 31 innings.  middle of the pack for all of baseball.  7 of those were on opening day where they didn't give up a run.  They have averaged three innings per game since.  They are not over worked.

 

Since that first day, they have given up 17er in 24ip for a 6.38era.  They have allowed 50% of inherited runners to score. 

[Tyler]

If you say so guy.

[Docwaukee]

If you say so guy.

thanks pal.  sharp response there sport.     

[Tyler]

A starter hasn't pitched more than 6 innings in a game this year. I can only help you with the equation, I won't solve it for you too.

[robblin17]

Anyone who thinks firing Scioscia now makes things better is smoking some crazy shit. Won't fix the awful pitching or bench.

 

Keeping him is not going to make things better either. We have had the same crap the last 3-4 years. It is a start. You can't cut all the players. 

[Erstad27]

If we mean fix by using what we already have, then Scioscia should have Bourjos lead off.  Otherwise, the Angels need to pull some good arms out of their behind for the pen.  And hope Madson can be effective when he comes back.

 

And we definitely need another rally animal.  Nowadays it seems if we are not ahead afer 5 innings we'll just pack it in and call it a game.  If we are ahead after 5, well then the bullpen will do their thing and lose it for us.

[Angelsjunky]

At only 9 games into the season you've got to let them try to play out of this funk. It isn't time to try to "fix" anything.

[acro2008]

case in point

gm 1 - great pen W

gm 2 - downs gets the loss

gm 4 - downs gets the loss

gm 6 - pen enters down 4-3.  Makes it 7-3.  game over

gm 7 - pen comes in up 5-4.  Lose 9-5

gm 8 - pen enters down 5-4 and makes it 10-4.  game over

gm 9 - pen enters down 3-1 and an inning later, it 6-1.  game over

 

the pen has played a major role in 7 of our 9 games. We are 1-6 in those games.   

I agree Doc the pen as played the major role, but if I may  beat a dead horse here, I hope some of  MS's awful bullpen management that has been going on 3 years now, (leaving guys in way too long watching the game go out of reach and pulling some doing well after 1-2 batters, not playing match ups), nobody ready in the pen or those match ups) hopefully doesn't demoralize the team.  It sure demoralizes the fans.  

[AZMike]

If we mean fix by using what we already have, then Scioscia should have Bourjos lead off.  Otherwise, the Angels need to pull some good arms out of their behind for the pen.  And hope Madson can be effective when he comes back.

 

And we definitely need another rally animal.  Nowadays it seems if we are not ahead afer 5 innings we'll just pack it in and call it a game.  If we are ahead after 5, well then the bullpen will do their thing and lose it for us.

 

Rally Monkey works great when you have a good bullpen and your setup guy is leading the team in wins.

[Coachbulldog]

Start drafting better within these next few years, actually get involved in the international market and sign guys from there. Replenish this farm system, stop overspending for players on the wrong side of 30, build around Trout

 

To "build around Trout" will take years and I don't believe Angels fans, sponsors, and the companies that hold their television and radio contracts will tolerate a building process that will take seasons to complete. What does need to happen is the Angels need to figure out a way to win with the players they have on the roster now.

[AZMike]

To "build around Trout" will take years and I don't believe Angels fans, sponsors, and the companies that hold their television and radio contracts will tolerate a building process that will take seasons to complete. What does need to happen is the Angels need to figure out a way to win with the players they have on the roster now.

No problem. Aren't baseball TV contracts guaranteed money just like player contracts?

 

#Loria

[stormngt]

You don't do anything right now. Sure you can screw with the lineup but 'it is what it is'. The bullpen is really the main problem at the moment. Starting pitching is not going to change much right now.

 

This was never a championship team from the get go this season. Nine games against the top teams in their respective divisions is a tough way to start the season.

 

I think everyone here still believes this team can make the playoffs.

"This was never a playoff team"  Good observation; The starting pitching was suspect from the get go.  It was suspect during the winter, it was suspect during spring training so why would it be any good now?  The bull pen is the same old blow pen from the last two years.  Our pitching sucks.  However, I am an optimist so I am hoping things turn around, but there isn't much anyone can do about it. 

[Docwaukee]

A starter hasn't pitched more than 6 innings in a game this year. I can only help you with the equation, I won't solve it for you too.

it's the beginning of the year.  Most starters go between 5-7ip.  They are ramping up. 

 

Are you saying the bullpen is gassed 9 games in when they haven't thrown any more innings than most bullpens would be expected to at this point?

 

Does this "equation" you speak of include a bunch of wacky and silly emoticons?

 

I wish I could be so edgy and cool like you and end my posts with a vague implication that you aren't very bright.

[MacNasty]

The answer isn't one magical change, there are a lot of issues with this team.

 

1. Bullpen.  It sucks AGAIN.  What do these bullpens have in common the last two years and this one?  Butcher.  Is he maximizing his available talent?  I don't think so.  I also don't think he is necessarily handling the young arms who have come up all that well.  The Angels should have an elite pitching coach.  Is Butcher that?  Not in my book.  He needs to be replaced with an upgrade.

 

2. Offense.  There is a lot of dysfunction still in this org from the days of MS "swing away" approach to the current direction as dictated by the GM.  I am not certain MS is really onboard with the whole thing, and he probably still isn't happy about losing his good friend as hitting coach.  Sciosh is a top echelon manager, but I am no longer certain he is the right fit for the Angels' direction.

 

3. Organizational depth.  They need to do a better job on international talent.  If I'm Moreno I would rather throw bigger signing bonuses out there for the young and unproven world players than go after these big name FAs.  Historically, that just doesn't work.

 

Chalk it up and this is going to be Scioscia's last season as Angels' manager.  I think a house cleaning is in order.  Pitching coach, Hitting coach, Bench coach, and yes Manager.  Only way that doesn't happen is if they get into the playoffs, but right now it is hard for me to envision that because I think both Oakland and Texas are probably going to end up having superior teams due to the pitching side.

[Tyler]

it's the beginning of the year. Most starters go between 5-7ip. They are ramping up.

Are you saying the bullpen is gassed 9 games in when they haven't thrown any more innings than most bullpens would be expected to at this point?

Does this "equation" you speak of include a bunch of wacky and silly emoticons?

I wish I could be so edgy and cool like you and end my posts with a vague implication that you aren't very bright.

There's only been three times where our starters gave up three runs or less. The only thing the starters have succeeded at this year is warming up the opposing bats for the bullpen.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Mathis.

[rageous]

Firing Sciscia and Butcher is a good start.

[Sully151]

Step 1- Sign The Beard. He will certainly add some character to this team (they need some). I am not sure when he will be ready, but a pen with a healthy Wilson and Madson sure looks a lot better than what we have now. This is all dependent on their health though. Situational Closer by committee.

 

Step 2- Fire Butcher. He has not done anything for this staff. They need a pitching coach that can lead, inspire and light a fire under the but of thie kids and Vets. Percy anyone? I am not sure if he would be interested or good, if not, someone else then.

 

Step 3- Send Eppard back to AAA. I think he is a good coach and teacher, but it seems to me that the entire hitting philosophy is flawed. Maybe this comes from Scioscia. I would love to see Salmon as a batting coach, but I am sure there are other good options.

 

Step 4- Move Trout back to the Lead-off spot and put Hamilton in the two hole. with Trout (and in later innings Bourjos) hopefully on base with the threat to steal and Pujols batting behind him, Hamilton should see more fast balls.

 

Step 5- Put Scioscia on a super short leash and start looking for a new manager just in case.

[Docwaukee]

There's only been three times where our starters gave up three runs or less. The only thing the starters have succeeded at this year is warming up the opposing bats for the bullpen.

Do you think that I am contending that our starters have been good?  If so, you are totally and completely missing my point. 

 

I'll rephrase.  We have had seven winnable games by the time it was handed over to the bullpen.  Games where we were either up or down by a max of two runs.  We have lost six of those.  If the bullpen performs halfway decently, we win 3 of those losses and we are 5-4 with the offense performing poorly. 

 

you implied that the pen sucked because they have been pitching too much.  Even if the starters get deeper into games, you are asking the pen to do something they seem incapable of and that is either holding a lead or not letting a deficit get out of control. 

[Tyler]

Do you think that I am contending that our starters have been good?  If so, you are totally and completely missing my point. 

 

I'll rephrase.  We have had seven winnable games by the time it was handed over to the bullpen.  Games where we were either up or down by a max of two runs.  We have lost six of those.  If the bullpen performs halfway decently, we win 3 of those losses and we are 5-4 with the offense performing poorly. 

 

you implied that the pen sucked because they have been pitching too much.  Even if the starters get deeper into games, you are asking the pen to do something they seem incapable of and that is either holding a lead or not letting a deficit get out of control. 

 

Hey Doc, I respect your opinion and agree with it on many subjects, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

My point was the starters dictate the pace and play of each game. When the other teams' bats are awake, it's going to be a see-saw battle the rest of the way. I do feel the relievers have been pitching too much, not necessarily overworked though. All in all, both sides of pitching are major concerns, but I'll lean with the starters as more concerning.