Off season targets

[Guest]

thats what i keep thinking when i read that. Calhoun did a fine job this year leading off.

Someone with Calhoun's power would be more productive to the team as a #2 or #3 hitter. 

 

<C. Figgins clone>

Trout/Calhoun

Calhoun/Trout

Pujols

[Angels]

Bullpen? Richards? Shoemaker? Weaver? Rasmus? Santiago for some period? Aybar? Kendrick? The catchers? Pujols? Freese? Some of the bench guys? Did you forget about them?

The Angels had the best record for a reason. It wasn't because of two guys, that's for sure.

[Troll Daddy]

Bullpen? Richards? Shoemaker? Weaver? Rasmus? Santiago for some period? Aybar? Kendrick? The catchers? Pujols? Freese? Some of the bench guys? Did you forget about them?

The Angels had the best record for a reason. It wasn't because of two guys, that's for sure.

Dude you're scaring me .... for once you're actually starting to make some sense.

Baseball is a total team sport. Trout and Calhoun are key players but it was our backend of the lineup that keep us strong when the front end struggled.

Defensively Aybar and Kendrick are two of the best up the middle.

I thought the pitching was great this season!

[Angels]

Likewise! You're making some non-trollish posts all of a sudden! I'm just wondering if it's because you're not in character anymore and/or decided to hang 'em up for good or is it because you wanted to mix some non-trollish posts with the trollish posts to make yourself seem less obvious?

[Second Base]

What? Please tell me who the Angels could acquire that would be better than Calhoun.

I think there are a few different ways to perceive this, but I don't think they're looking to replace Calhoun as the leadoff hitter. I think they want him in the 2 spot, sliding Trout to 3, Pujols to 4 and Kendrick to 5. Just reading between the lines and moves that Dipoto has made, I think he's looking for somewhat of a Cowgill-Campana hybrid. Some with enough bat and speed to be a force.

I know that Dipoto is a big believer in diversity bringing balance, meaning a fairly even mix of young guys, others in their prime and vets. When you look at the team as currently constructed, there are a ton of commodities that are in that 30-35 range, a solid group of players who are fresh to the league, but there aren't a ton in years 4-6 in the league right now.

I also doubt Dipoto makes any bold moves to balance out the team because you shouldn't tinker too much to a 98 win team. I also doubt we find a taker for Hamilton.

Just off the top of my head, I think the Angels will sign either Peavy or McCarthy and bring back Thatcher.

[Troll Daddy]

Hamilton controls his own future not the Angels. I seriously doubt Arte wants to eat $60M and sign a replacement player for no reason.

[Brent Maguire]

You can still get some value in return at this point in their careers. 

You can trade these guys if you have solid replacements or if you're in a rebuilding mode.

 

In the Angels case, neither of those are possible. 

 

The downgrade from Howie to Green is very big. Aybar has no replacement. Iannetta is a FA after the year so he doesn't have much value. Freese doesn't have much value. Hamilton/Pujols aren't going anywhere. 

[Brent Maguire]

Recently defected Cuban second baseman Jose Fernandez. Allows the team to move Howie for the starter and move Calhoun down in the lineup to slug. Like to see his OBP go up, only .325 last year. 

Calhoun's 125 wRC+ was 38th best in baseball and 17th best among outfielders. You have to adjust for the context of this run scoring environment and the fact that Calhoun is playing in a very pitcher friendly park.

 

A .325 OBP% and .450 SLG% is extremely good nowadays from your leadoff hitter. 

[Stradling]

Claude would you be happier if we put together an infield of:

Cron

Beckham

Green

Lucho

Conger

They are all younger than who we currently have. Problem is every single one of them is a downgrade from the veterans, who did their f'ing job last year. I agree that the team needs to get younger, but that means absolutely nothing if they don't get better.

[Ohtaniland]

Claude would you be happier if we put together an infield of:

Cron

Beckham

Green

Lucho

Conger

They are all younger than who we currently have. Problem is every single one of them is a downgrade from the veterans, who did their f'ing job last year. I agree that the team needs to get younger, but that means absolutely nothing if they don't get better.

Strad, my point is that we need start a youth movement and that Aybar, Iannetta, Kendrick and Freese do have some value today and can get us some prospects or draft picks in return. Pujols and Hamilton are the aging veterans and are basically done and they can't be moved. Trout, Calhoun and Cron are the keepers. The players I've mentioned for trades are the tweeners and can be moved.

I think I remember someone posting a Fangraphs article that showed that most MLB players peak between the ages of 27-30 and then rapid decline begins. Our whole infield will be 31+ this season.

[Stradling]

So even though we could have won it all this year, if we didn't lose Richards and if we hit in the post season like we did in the regular season, you would rather us start over, rather than give it another go this year?

[Stradling]

I know you're point Claude (and this is actually a good discussion), I just don't know if we can acquire players that will be upgrades, even down the road, for what we currently have to offer.

[Ohtaniland]

So even though we could have won it all this year, if we didn't lose Richards and if we hit in the post season like we did in the regular season, you would rather us start over, rather than give it another go this year?

In my opinion 2014 was our season. We were in the "win now" mode and we had the best record with home advantage. The injurys to Richards and Skaggs were huge. What was accomplished will be tough to repeat with so many aging veterans. I guess I'm caught up with the KC Royals story with all that speed on the base paths. I also remember when Hamilton, Aybar, Kendrick, Pujols were all .300+ hitters. Freese was a .295+ hitter.

Those days are gone and those players have peaked already. Perfect time to move them and also dump some salary. We can't move Pujols and Hamilton but the rest of them can be moved.

Edited October 19, 2014 by CALZONE

[Stradling]

Well, those days are gone for everyone. This has been repeated so many times, but it bears repeating again, OFFENSE IS DOWN. So when you post Luis Gonzalez's numbers and ask if we have anyone that can do that, that is irrelevant. He put up those numbers, and guess what, Trout still had a better year last year compared to his peers in his worst year of his career. In order to get what you really want to get we have to trade EVERYONE, that includes Richards, Trout and Calhoun, because in order to reload and be relevant, we have to give up high ceiling guys in order to get multiple guys like that back in return. Oh and they will all be minor leaguers, with huge upside, so they can be Brandon Wood or they could be really good players.

[Ohtaniland]

Strad I just think that the trend is to get younger and faster. I would not trade our youth away. When Dipoto arrives at the Winter Meetings in December I think he will dangle some veteran players to see what's out there. Even Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey had to be dismantled at some point. Sorry about using a Dodgers reference but we do need to get younger.

[Second Base]

Strad I just think that the trend is to get younger and faster. I would not trade our youth away. When Dipoto arrives at the Winter Meetings in December I think he will dangle some veteran players to see what's out there. Even Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey had to be dismantled at some point. Sorry about using a Dodgers reference but we do need to get younger.

I feel like the Angels can dangle whoever they want, it doesn't change the fact that other teams likely won't give them what they need/want. Case in point, Kendrick. The White Sox turned down a trade for Jose Quintana, which ended up being smart. The Dodgers and Angels couldn't work out a deal that would send Zach Lee here.

It's clear the Angels want one thing for Kendrick. Good, projectable, inexpensive, young SP. The issue is, teams that have that commodity aren't trading it for Kendrick.

As for Aybar and Freese, there just isn't a replacement, unless you consider Green a starting SS, Beckham a starting 3B and Yarbrough a starting 2B, which exciting as it may be is quite the downgrade.

[Ohtaniland]

I feel like the Angels can dangle whoever they want, it doesn't change the fact that other teams likely won't give them what they need/want. Case in point, Kendrick. The White Sox turned down a trade for Jose Quintana, which ended up being smart. The Dodgers and Angels couldn't work out a deal that would send Zach Lee here.

It's clear the Angels want one thing for Kendrick. Good, projectable, inexpensive, young SP. The issue is, teams that have that commodity aren't trading it for Kendrick.

As for Aybar and Freese, there just isn't a replacement, unless you consider Green a starting SS, Beckham a starting 3B and Yarbrough a starting 2B, which exciting as it may be is quite the downgrade.

I understand your point but the clock is ticking on what's left of the trade value for these players. Today's players after the age of 33 are pretty much finished with their productivity. Howie, Iannetta, Aybar and Freese are all knocking on that door at the same time. Pujols is there.

[Guest]

In my opinion 2014 was our season. We were in the "win now" mode and we had the best record with home advantage. The injurys to Richards and Skaggs were huge. What was accomplished will be tough to repeat with so many aging veterans. I guess I'm caught up with the KC Royals story with all that speed on the base paths. I also remember when Hamilton, Aybar, Kendrick, Pujols were all .300+ hitters. Freese was a .295+ hitter.

Those days are gone and those players have peaked already. Perfect time to move them and also dump some salary. We can't move Pujols and Hamilton but the rest of them can be moved.

Most of the team is together still in 2015. If we have a solid chance of winning the division at the all star break, stick with it, if not, blow it up as much as possible and go young.

Edited October 19, 2014 by ScottLux

[Ohtaniland]

Most of the team is together still in 2015. If we have a solid chance of winning the division at the all star break, stick with it, if not, blow it up as much as possible and go young.

 

The only reason I would support that is because we are running out of time. Pujols, Hamilton, Aybar. Kendrick, Freese, Iannetta are all on the sunset sides of their careers. If we don't move a couple of these guys out for youth we could be attending some old-timers games in the near future.

[Dave Saltzer]

I think there are a few different ways to perceive this, but I don't think they're looking to replace Calhoun as the leadoff hitter. I think they want him in the 2 spot, sliding Trout to 3, Pujols to 4 and Kendrick to 5. Just reading between the lines and moves that Dipoto has made, I think he's looking for somewhat of a Cowgill-Campana hybrid. Some with enough bat and speed to be a force.

I know that Dipoto is a big believer in diversity bringing balance, meaning a fairly even mix of young guys, others in their prime and vets. When you look at the team as currently constructed, there are a ton of commodities that are in that 30-35 range, a solid group of players who are fresh to the league, but there aren't a ton in years 4-6 in the league right now.

I also doubt Dipoto makes any bold moves to balance out the team because you shouldn't tinker too much to a 98 win team. I also doubt we find a taker for Hamilton.

Just off the top of my head, I think the Angels will sign either Peavy or McCarthy and bring back Thatcher.

I was the one who tossed out the idea of getting a leadoff hitter. Scotty is just building on that.

 

I'm a big Calhoun fan, no doubt about that. But, he'd be far more valuable as our #2 hitter than leading off (if we can get a good leadoff hitter). Trout would be far more valuable as our #3 hitter, and Pujols as the cleanup hitter. It's not a knock on Calhoun, it's about getting the most value and production from each person in the lineup. I will be honest, I don't know who is out there that we can get who would be a better leadoff hitter, but, I do believe that adding one would make the lineup better.

 

In my first interview with Dipoto, he did talk about wanting to have a "layered" approach to ages on the team so that there is a constant mix of veterans and youth in the clubhouse to create a rolling cycle of players on the team. There is a dearth in layers in the lineup, so I can see something being done there, if possible. 

 

We won 98 games last year, and that was with the bullpen early on being in shambles. It is not any more. I don't see major moves, but I could see Cron being traded (power is becoming a commodity that can bring back some pitching). I sure hope that Hamilton figures out whatever it was that was missing and gets healthy this offseason. I don't think he can be moved, so, I'd rather see him getting back to what made him worthy of such a contract.

[SoWhat]

I'd look into dealing for Kyle Kubitza of the Braves. He could be a future lead off man

[Ohtaniland]

Resting on our laurels will bite us in the future. Remember that we have to work around Pujols and Hamilton. Aybar, Kendrick, Iannetta and Freese are right behind them. They have some value now but they won't tomorrow.

[Brent Maguire]

Strad, my point is that we need start a youth movement and that Aybar, Iannetta, Kendrick and Freese do have some value today and can get us some prospects or draft picks in return. Pujols and Hamilton are the aging veterans and are basically done and they can't be moved. Trout, Calhoun and Cron are the keepers. The players I've mentioned for trades are the tweeners and can be moved.

I think I remember someone posting a Fangraphs article that showed that most MLB players peak between the ages of 27-30 and then rapid decline begins. Our whole infield will be 31+ this season.

I believe Kendrick and Aybar are going to be compensated when they hit free agency. I would rather keep both of them until their time is up and have some draft picks instead. 1 year of Kendrick isn't going to fetch a ton in return. 2 years of Aybar is very valuable but we also have no replacement for him.

 

If the Angels tank for some odd reason in 2015, then I would look to sell some guys at the deadline. Otherwise, keep the same team out there that won 98 games. Grab a starting pitcher and lefty reliever(maybe a DH) too in free agency and call it a day. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Im of the camp the team doesnt need major tweaks, but we do NEED starting pitching. Id love to nab a front end type like Lester, but its probably not in the budget. But either way, we have to replace skaggs and a second arm (IMO) for any combo of richards having a setback, shoemaker having a sophmore slump, and CJ Wilson being CJ Wilson.

[Second Base]

I was the one who tossed out the idea of getting a leadoff hitter. Scotty is just building on that.

I'm a big Calhoun fan, no doubt about that. But, he'd be far more valuable as our #2 hitter than leading off (if we can get a good leadoff hitter). Trout would be far more valuable as our #3 hitter, and Pujols as the cleanup hitter. It's not a knock on Calhoun, it's about getting the most value and production from each person in the lineup. I will be honest, I don't know who is out there that we can get who would be a better leadoff hitter, but, I do believe that adding one would make the lineup better.

In my first interview with Dipoto, he did talk about wanting to have a "layered" approach to ages on the team so that there is a constant mix of veterans and youth in the clubhouse to create a rolling cycle of players on the team. There is a dearth in layers in the lineup, so I can see something being done there, if possible.

We won 98 games last year, and that was with the bullpen early on being in shambles. It is not any more. I don't see major moves, but I could see Cron being traded (power is becoming a commodity that can bring back some pitching). I sure hope that Hamilton figures out whatever it was that was missing and gets healthy this offseason. I don't think he can be moved, so, I'd rather see him getting back to what made him worthy of such a contract.

With respect, I wasn't so much intending to build off your belief as much as I was stating what I've been told. Much of it happens to be precisely what Dipoto has said, particularly to you, which carries a lot of weight. I don't feel like Dipoto is lying at all, he acts on his belief and I think we all see this.

I believe a starting pitcher and a strong defensive leadoff OF between years 4-6 in his career is what Dipoto desires. I don't believe he will get everything he wants this offseason though.

The only way I see it happening is if a trade partner for Hamilton is found our Green/Yarbrough make a tremendous leap in production which makes Lendrick expendable and another team trades something if value for him at the deadline.

I don't see it happening, much as I like and believe in both Green and Yarbrough.