Baseball Tiers as of 4-22-24

[Swordsman78]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Yea I can’t understand this breakthrough tier system that a valued poster created. 

Understandable its alot of math.  PM me for a tutorial.

Edited April 23 by Swordsman78

[Swordsman78]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Bob Starr said:

There is no merit in this. The games are played in the field. 22 games is a small sample size and any team can win 10 in a row (except the angels or white Sox) and it still won’t mean anything in the grand scheme if things.  
 

this is like going on a first date and you thinking about what college your kids you don’t even have will attend. 

It's presented content for discussion.   Wanted to get a baseline (beta test) version out early for crowd sourcing help.   This will be updated "officially" again after approx 60 games.   

Edited April 23 by Swordsman78

[Angelsfan1984]

You’re not factoring injuries in. Or the cost of beer or parking. Wtf is this amateur hour!? 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

It's presented content for discussion.   Wanted to get a baseline (beta test) version out early for crowd sourcing help.   This will be updated "officially" again after approx 60 games.   

The masses can’t wait.  
 

great. More “content.”

[Swordsman78]

3 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Yes because Cleveland is one of the best teams in the league? This is some high octane dumbassery. 

Yup.  As of today Cleveland has won 6 of 7 Series including taking 3 of 4 from the Red Sox last week. 

[Tank]

is this your own creation or is this something that exists somewhere else?

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Waiting to see if halos have dropped into tier 6 yet.  

[Blarg]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:57 PM, Tank said:

is this your own creation or is this something that exists somewhere else?

@Swordsman78?

[Inside Pitch]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:13 PM, Swordsman78 said:

Understandable its alot of math.  PM me for a tutorial.

There's math but there's also gibberish built upon the subjective analysis of a random dude on the internet -- it's about as scientific and analytical as an ESPN power ranking.  

If you wanted to create a tier list based on purely on math and focusing on wins and who has played who then you may as well start by using RPI as the the baseline -- RPI basic formula being, 25% team winning percentage, 50% opponents' average winning percentage, and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage.

Using RPI and going for 6 tiers you'd get the following.

Tier 1: Milwaukee .577, Baltimore .574 , Cleveland .568, NYM .556, and Boston .547.
Tier 2: Seattle .535, Cinci .526, Pittsburgh.523, LAD .521, NYY .517.
Tier 3: Atlanta .516, Philly .510, Minnesota .503, Oakland .499, Toronto .498
Tier 4: KC .497, CHC .494, SDP .494, Detroit .488, LAA .483
Tier 5: Texas .479, STL .477, TBR .475, Washington .473, SFG .473
Tier 6: Arizona .463, Houston .455, Miami .441, Colorado .426, CWS .415

So how does Oakland end up in Tier 3 while the D-Backs (You didn't even include them in yours), end up in Tier 6?  It's called the unbalanced schedule.  Even using something that attempts to incorporate real math/analysis and not "trust me bro" math it's pointless until everyone in MLB has played more than 5 or 6 of the 30 teams in MLB.  

Using RPI, 12 of the Angels 25 games (48%) have come against TIER 1 teams and 15 of their 25 games (60%) have come against the top 2 tiers .vs the 3 games they have played against the Marlins. Considering how many winnable games they have lost some might see that as a reason to believe they could do better... but reality is we don't know if they will find ways to lose against bad teams too.  It's just too early. 

Props for making an effort to substantiate your rankings but you may want to ease up on BS a bit.

 

[Halo in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

There's math but there's also gibberish built upon the subjective analysis of a random dude on the internet -- it's about as scientific and analytical as an ESPN power ranking.  

If you wanted to create a tier list based on purely on math and focusing on wins and who has played who then you may as well start by using RPI as the the baseline -- RPI basic formula being, 25% team winning percentage, 50% opponents' average winning percentage, and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage.

 

Yeah, but now that you're actually bringing real math into it, he can't troll by saying the Angels have lost to a ton of lower tier teams...

[PattyD22]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

There's math but there's also gibberish built upon the subjective analysis of a random dude on the internet -- it's about as scientific and analytical as an ESPN power ranking.  

If you wanted to create a tier list based on purely on math and focusing on wins and who has played who then you may as well start by using RPI as the the baseline -- RPI basic formula being, 25% team winning percentage, 50% opponents' average winning percentage, and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage.

Using RPI and going for 6 tiers you'd get the following.

Tier 1: Milwaukee .577, Baltimore .574 , Cleveland .568, NYM .556, and Boston .547.
Tier 2: Seattle .535, Cinci .526, Pittsburgh.523, LAD .521, NYY .517.
Tier 3: Atlanta .516, Philly .510, Minnesota .503, Oakland .499, Toronto .498
Tier 4: KC .497, CHC .494, SDP .494, Detroit .488, LAA .483
Tier 5: Texas .479, STL .477, TBR .475, Washington .473, SFG .473
Tier 6: Arizona .463, Houston .455, Miami .441, Colorado .426, CWS .415

So how does Oakland end up in Tier 3 while the D-Backs (You didn't even include them in yours), end up in Tier 6?  It's called the unbalanced schedule.  Even using something that attempts to incorporate real math/analysis and not "trust me bro" math it's pointless until everyone in MLB has played more than 5 or 6 of the 30 teams in MLB.  

Using RPI, 12 of the Angels 25 games (48%) have come against TIER 1 teams and 15 of their 25 games (60%) have come against the top 2 tiers .vs the 3 games they have played against the Marlins. Considering how many winnable games they have lost some might see that as a reason to believe they could do better... but reality is we don't know if they will find ways to lose against bad teams too.  It's just too early. 

Props for making an effort to substantiate your rankings but you may want to ease up on BS a bit.

 

[Swordsman78]

7 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

There's math but there's also gibberish built upon the subjective analysis of a random dude on the internet -- it's about as scientific and analytical as an ESPN power ranking.  

If you wanted to create a tier list based on purely on math and focusing on wins and who has played who then you may as well start by using RPI as the the baseline -- RPI basic formula being, 25% team winning percentage, 50% opponents' average winning percentage, and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage.

Using RPI and going for 6 tiers you'd get the following.

Tier 1: Milwaukee .577, Baltimore .574 , Cleveland .568, NYM .556, and Boston .547.
Tier 2: Seattle .535, Cinci .526, Pittsburgh.523, LAD .521, NYY .517.
Tier 3: Atlanta .516, Philly .510, Minnesota .503, Oakland .499, Toronto .498
Tier 4: KC .497, CHC .494, SDP .494, Detroit .488, LAA .483
Tier 5: Texas .479, STL .477, TBR .475, Washington .473, SFG .473
Tier 6: Arizona .463, Houston .455, Miami .441, Colorado .426, CWS .415

So how does Oakland end up in Tier 3 while the D-Backs (You didn't even include them in yours), end up in Tier 6?  It's called the unbalanced schedule.  Even using something that attempts to incorporate real math/analysis and not "trust me bro" math it's pointless until everyone in MLB has played more than 5 or 6 of the 30 teams in MLB.  

Using RPI, 12 of the Angels 25 games (48%) have come against TIER 1 teams and 15 of their 25 games (60%) have come against the top 2 tiers .vs the 3 games they have played against the Marlins. Considering how many winnable games they have lost some might see that as a reason to believe they could do better... but reality is we don't know if they will find ways to lose against bad teams too.  It's just too early. 

Props for making an effort to substantiate your rankings but you may want to ease up on BS a bit.

 

This is an excellent response and I appreciate your use of different metrics.  Both your Tier rating, and the "prospective Angelswin" Tier rating have Cleveland in Tier 1 which seems to upset some people.  So even though different metrics are used, the results are somewhat supportive.

 

Since the "prospective Angelswin" Baseball Tiers are meant to be crowd sourced, We will take your suggestions and have the interns try to incorporate them .  We already added results in last 10 games as a metric due to a good suggestion.

The goal of the Tiers is to evaluate each teams performance using a snap shot in time.   Yes, the schedules are unbalanced, but we have metrics which attempt to address this, even if not to the extent you would desire.

 Your Tiers emphasize RPI which is perfectly fine.  The driving metrics for this one are "series won", and performance in last 10 games.

 

 

 

Edited April 26 by Swordsman78

[Tank]

1 minute ago, Swordsman78 said:

and the Angelswin Tier rating

please don't call it this. this is your thing, not chuck's thing. 

[Angelsfan1984]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

please don't call it this. this is your thing, not chuck's thing. 

I think he really believes that somehow talking about it relentlessly will create a form of credibility…when in reality he’s just a troll on the interwebs with absolutely nothing better to do. @Stradling can we have this as a pinned topic…on the 14th page?

[Swordsman78]

16 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I think he really believes that somehow talking about it relentlessly will create a form of credibility…when in reality he’s just a troll on the interwebs with absolutely nothing better to do. @Stradling can we have this as a pinned topic…on the 14th page?

You are calling "mommy" because you are resentful/salty that no matter what metrics are used, Cleveland ends up in Tier 1 at this point in the season.  

Also, if you are going to pick a year in your screen name, suggest using a Tier 1 or 2 season. 

Edited April 26 by Swordsman78

[Swordsman78]

6 hours ago, Halo in Chicago said:

Yeah, but now that you're actually bringing real math into it, he can't troll by saying the Angels have lost to a ton of lower tier teams...

"Real math" has the Braves and Philly in Tier 3.

[Angelsfan1984]

27 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

You are calling "mommy" because you are resentful/salty that no matter what metrics are used, Cleveland ends up in Tier 1 at this point in the season.  

Also, if you are going to pick a year in your screen name, suggest using a Tier 1 or 2 season. 

Yes I’m calling mommy clearly. Makes total sense that you feel like defending your idiotic takes to anyone who will listen. I bet if you put as much thought into your tiers as you do your trolling they might actually…nope never mind. Still a dumbass.

[Jeremiah]

46 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I think he really believes that somehow talking about it relentlessly will create a form of credibility…when in reality he’s just a troll on the interwebs with absolutely nothing better to do. @Stradling can we have this as a pinned topic…on the 14th page?

There’s nothing requiring anyone to engage with this post. He presented a topic. Discussing it is not required of anyone who doesn’t like said topic.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

There’s nothing requiring anyone to engage with this post. He presented a topic. Discussing it is not required of anyone who doesn’t like said topic.

He presented a “look at me” and some of us looked at him.  

[Stradling]

37 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

"Real math" has the Braves and Philly in Tier 3.

Haha.  

[Inside Pitch]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:28 PM, Swordsman78 said:

This is an excellent response and I appreciate your use of different metrics.  Both your Tier rating, and the "prospective Angelswin" Tier rating have Cleveland in Tier 1 which

I didn't offer any tier rating, I just broke RPI down into 6 groups because it's not subjective. 

On 4/26/2024 at 4:58 PM, Swordsman78 said:

"Real math" has the Braves and Philly in Tier 3.

I also made it a point to say that it's noise because most teams have yet to play even 30% of the other teams.

On 4/26/2024 at 3:28 PM, Swordsman78 said:

Since the "prospective Angelswin" Baseball Tiers are meant to be crowd sourced, We will take your suggestions and have the interns try to incorporate them .  We already added results in last 10 games as a metric due to a good suggestion.

Explain to me what is good about record over the last ten games?  That would measure three series vs Boston, Cleveland, and NY as being equal to having played Miami, CWS, and Colorado.  Adding bad methodology to a system only adds more noise.  You should be aiming for clarity, not noise.

On 4/26/2024 at 3:28 PM, Swordsman78 said:

The goal of the Tiers is to evaluate each teams performance using a snap shot in time.   Yes, the schedules are unbalanced, but we have metrics which attempt to address this, even if not to the extent you would desire.

See above.  

On 4/26/2024 at 3:28 PM, Swordsman78 said:

 Your Tiers emphasize RPI which is perfectly fine.  The driving metrics for this one are "series won", and performance in last 10 games.

See above.

On 4/26/2024 at 4:58 PM, Swordsman78 said:

"Real math" has the Braves and Philly in Tier 3.

It also has the Dbacks in Tier 6.  I know you think you're making a point but you're actually missing it completely.  

It's noise.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

He presented a “look at me” and some of us looked at him.  

Slap a lock on there and call it a day.  
 

I only rely on Piodeportes pisos.