I was wrong. This is not a .500 team.

[fan_since79]

Angels on pace for 66 wins, and the schedule gets tougher. 

No offense, no defense, and so-so pitching. A couple of bright spots here and there, but now Rendon is gone for who knows how long, and Trout is in a deep slump. Guys like Neto and Drury have forgotten how to hit a baseball, and Hicks is an automatic out. Adell is wasted on the bench. 

 

 

[ScottM]

Triple-A team. Just root for the rookies to get better, not much else to write home about.

[budice0]

If they do hit rock-bottom, it'll mean a high draft pick.  They've been doing .500 regardless of the payroll for so long.  Finally have a chance at top talent in the Draft.

When your payroll and talent lags behind competitors, it leads to certain realities.  We know Rendon.  We know Trout.  If the others overachieve great, but the consensus is this is not a playoff-caliber team.  Ron Washington knows that.

It'll be a long season, but the realities of a rebuild with possible ownership change are looming.  Hopefully for the better. 

[Angelsjunky]

Yeah, it is sort of disheartening. For awhile there it looked like they could go up over .500 and shoot for something like 85 wins on the season. Now I'd be surprised if they won 75. The team is a mess. Trout and Ward have been trending down the last week. I'm sure they'll bounce back, but we might also need to accept the likelihood that this version of Trout isn't a full renaissance. The pitching is a mess. Schanuel and Neto look under-cooked. Etc.

But, while it is disheartening, it isn't surprising. Their strongish start was more surprising. This is more what we should have expected.

[Angels 1961]

I was also wrong I said it would be fun watching young players develop. Not having any fun yet. Fire in Ron Washingtons belly is turning into an ulcer.

[Waybackman]

Poor Trout. A great career wasted on a sub-par team in a dysfunctional organization. He will finish his career never having been to the promised land. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

6 minutes ago, budice0 said:

If they do hit rock-bottom, it'll mean a high draft pick.  They've been doing .500 regardless of the payroll for so long.  Finally have a chance at top talent in the Draft.

When your payroll and talent lags behind competitors, it leads to certain realities.  We know Rendon.  We know Trout.  If the others overachieve great, but the consensus is this is not a playoff-caliber team.  Ron Washington knows that.

It'll be a long season, but the realities of a rebuild with possible ownership change are looming.  Hopefully for the better. 

If Ron Washington does know that, it makes even less sense that Hicks has started over half of the games so far. He has a -0.5 WAR and a robust 27 OPS+. Just DFA him and start Adell 6/7 games, Moniak against all RHP starters and Sano between 3rd, 1st, and DH.

[samwum]

Very transparent chain of events that have lead to this situation, as I outlined below.

 

 

[Slegnaac]

Time for another closed door meeting.

[HanfordGuy]

33 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Hicks is an automatic out.

Tiger Woods is paying “Arte” directly to play Hicks. Have you seen the price of yacht fuel???

[Jason]

Anyone that thought this team was a .500 team going into the season had their fan blinders on. 

[HanfordGuy]

1 minute ago, Slegnaac said:

Time for another closed door meeting.

With a lock on the outside!

[samwum]

7 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

If Ron Washington does know that, it makes even less sense that Hicks has started over half of the games so far. He has a -0.5 WAR and a robust 27 OPS+. Just DFA him and start Adell 6/7 games, Moniak against all RHP starters and Sano between 3rd, 1st, and DH.

I've lost full confidence in Wash because of this one. I really appreciate the way Wash has emphasized defense, situational hitting, and baserunning, but if you aren't going to play the best players -- get the fuck out.

Hicks was below average against RHP even in his prime. He is fully washed up -- the Yankees paid him ~$30mm to not play for them. Hicks playing against RHP, and hitting leadoff, is flat out fucking ridiculous. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

Just now, samwum said:

Very transparent chain of events that have lead to this situation, as I outlined below.

 

 

To be fair, from the reports I recall, Arte forced them to be buyers at the deadline and the other two didn't break the bank. With that said, giving up our second for Thor made zero freaking sense at the time.

In all, I don't really know how to judge Perry as he hasn't been given the same amount to play with financially compared to his three predecessors. This off-season he mostly gets a pass from me because I think the plans changed drastically after Ohtani left, and Arte decided to go into a rebuild and penny pinch. I hope attendance suffers a ton and Arte changes his mind (again) and sells the team. It really sucks having him as an owner when they are in such a large marketplace. Contrast that with the Clippers who have one of the richest owners in sports that is driven to win - he has failed to do so so far but he clearly invests in the franchise. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

Just now, samwum said:

I've lost full confidence in Wash because of this one. I really appreciate the way Wash has emphasized defense, situational hitting, and baserunning, but if you aren't going to play the best players -- get the fuck out.

Hicks was below average against RHP even in his prime. He is fully washed up -- the Yankees paid him ~$30mm to not play for them. Hicks playing against RHP, and hitting leadoff, is flat out fucking ridiculous. 

Right, I didn't care much for signing Wash, but to be fair, it made some sense given how many younger players we are likely to see this year and next and a focus on those fundamental aspects your outlined. Of course, that also brings up the first point of needing to play Adell almost every game which likely will come from Perry DFA'ing him (which he should).

[TooCool]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Anyone that thought this team was a .500 team going into the season had their fan blinders on. 

I don't know where I posted this or if I tweeted it to someone but I think this is a 58 win team at best.

But I'll excuse anyone who thought positively because it was likely the "new season smell" that people had. Everyone and their grandma will think their team is good and has a shot at being decent... until they face reality.

[Angelsjunky]

I suppose the silver lining is that the AL West sucks: The Angels are 9-13, but only 2 games behind 1st.

But if and when the Angels fall further behind, it might behoove everyone to re-calibrate expectations and just focus on the rebuilding aspect of 2024 - and that includes Washington. Stop worrying about replacing Neto or getting production from any particular player or position. Start thinking about the usable pieces of the 2025 team and beyond. Given that, Neto and Schanuel are just as well served getting reps in Anaheim as they'd be in Salt Lake.

2024 was always a taking stock/rebuilding year. At 4-2 and 6-4 it was hard not to dream of a nice story ala the Rangers from last year. But how realistic was that, really?

So let's hope Washington re-adjusts soon and starts playing Adell more, and doesn't give up on Neto and Schanuel. See if Canning and Sandoval can turn it around. Continue to coax Soriano along. Etc, etc.

[tdawg87]

19 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I suppose the silver lining is that the AL West sucks: The Angels are 9-13, but only 2 games behind 1st.

But if and when the Angels fall further behind, it might behoove everyone to re-calibrate expectations and just focus on the rebuilding aspect of 2024 - and that includes Washington. Stop worrying about replacing Neto or getting production from any particular player or position. Start thinking about the usable pieces of the 2025 team and beyond. Given that, Neto and Schanuel are just as well served getting reps in Anaheim as they'd be in Salt Lake.

2024 was always a taking stock/rebuilding year. At 4-2 and 6-4 it was hard not to dream of a nice story ala the Rangers from last year. But how realistic was that, really?

So let's hope Washington re-adjusts soon and starts playing Adell more, and doesn't give up on Neto and Schanuel. See if Canning and Sandoval can turn it around. Continue to coax Soriano along. Etc, etc.

The AL West sucks because none of the other teams have gotten to play the Angels.

[HeavenlyHalos]

11 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I suppose the silver lining is that the AL West sucks: The Angels are 9-13, but only 2 games behind 1st.

But if and when the Angels fall further behind, it might behoove everyone to re-calibrate expectations and just focus on the rebuilding aspect of 2024 - and that includes Washington. Stop worrying about replacing Neto or getting production from any particular player or position. Start thinking about the usable pieces of the 2025 team and beyond. Given that, Neto and Schanuel are just as well served getting reps in Anaheim as they'd be in Salt Lake.

2024 was always a taking stock/rebuilding year. At 4-2 and 6-4 it was hard not to dream of a nice story ala the Rangers from last year. But how realistic was that, really?

So let's hope Washington re-adjusts soon and starts playing Adell more, and doesn't give up on Neto and Schanuel. See if Canning and Sandoval can turn it around. Continue to coax Soriano along. Etc, etc.

I agree with most of this but an argument can be made that Neto and/or Schanuel would be better off developing in the minors to achieve their best possible long-term potential. Neto especially looks completely lost right now at the ML level, especially against breaking balls. Most fans agree that Adell was brought up way too early and it may have significantly impacted his development. That could also be the case here, of course it is hard to ascertain if that is the case or not. On the other hand, Adell is having the best plate appearance of the "future" hitters (0 WAR, 110 OPS+), sans O'Hoppe, and he has the fewest starts (7). Neto has 20 starts (-0.1 WAR, 37 OPS+), O'Hoppe has 17 (0.5 WAR, 134 OPS+), Schanuel 16 (-0.1 WAR, 52 OPS+), and Moniak 12 (-0.7 WAR, 39 OPPS+). I get that part of that is due to the respective positions they play and all but it is still pretty crazy, especially considering that Adell still has a high ceiling.

[samwum]

29 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I suppose the silver lining is that the AL West sucks: The Angels are 9-13, but only 2 games behind 1st.

But if and when the Angels fall further behind, it might behoove everyone to re-calibrate expectations and just focus on the rebuilding aspect of 2024 - and that includes Washington. Stop worrying about replacing Neto or getting production from any particular player or position. Start thinking about the usable pieces of the 2025 team and beyond. Given that, Neto and Schanuel are just as well served getting reps in Anaheim as they'd be in Salt Lake.

2024 was always a taking stock/rebuilding year. At 4-2 and 6-4 it was hard not to dream of a nice story ala the Rangers from last year. But how realistic was that, really?

So let's hope Washington re-adjusts soon and starts playing Adell more, and doesn't give up on Neto and Schanuel. See if Canning and Sandoval can turn it around. Continue to coax Soriano along. Etc, etc.

This isn't constructed as a taking stock/rebuilding team. 

Drury, Estevez, and Moore might bring back a fringe prospect at the deadline, but there are a shit ton of other veterans taking up playing time who are on expiring contracts and presumably have no trade value.

There is no reason for Hicks, Sano, Garcia, Cisnero, Strickland, Fulmer, or Adrianza to be on a rebuilding team. They aren't good, they don't have any team control, and they don't have any trade value.

Altogether, the Halos probably have minimum 10 guys on this roster who won't be here next year. 

It's not like they are building towards a better future or something. This is just a shitty team with a ton of journeymen hoping to tread water long enough for the front office to keep their jobs. 

[samwum]

9 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

I agree with most of this but an argument can be made that Neto and/or Schanuel would be better off developing in the minors to achieve their best possible long-term potential. Neto especially looks completely lost right now at the ML level, especially against breaking balls. Most fans agree that Adell was brought up way too early and it may have significantly impacted his development. That could also be the case here, of course it is hard to ascertain if that is the case or not. On the other hand, Adell is having the best plate appearance of the "future" hitters (0 WAR, 110 OPS+), sans O'Hoppe, and he has the fewest starts (7). Neto has 20 starts (-0.1 WAR, 37 OPS+), O'Hoppe has 17 (0.5 WAR, 134 OPS+), Schanuel 16 (-0.1 WAR, 52 OPS+), and Moniak 12 (-0.7 WAR, 39 OPPS+). I get that part of that is due to the respective positions they play and all but it is still pretty crazy, especially considering that Adell still has a high ceiling.

It's not about what is best for their long term potential. It's about what's the best case scenario for Perry's argument for a contract extension at the end of the year. He needs to be able to point to Neto, Schanuel, and Moniak as success stories this season and sending them down won't accomplish that. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

2 minutes ago, samwum said:

It's not about what is best for their long term potential. It's about what's the best case scenario for Perry's argument for a contract extension at the end of the year. He needs to be able to point to Neto, Schanuel, and Moniak as success stories this season and sending them down won't accomplish that. 

Point taken, but I was commenting on what is best for the Angels franchise, not Perry's future employment.

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, samwum said:

It's not about what is best for their long term potential. It's about what's the best case scenario for Perry's argument for a contract extension at the end of the year. He needs to be able to point to Neto, Schanuel, and Moniak as success stories this season and sending them down won't accomplish that. 

Moniak is out of options, anyway, so they don't really have a choice with him.  Use him or potentially lose him. 

[samwum]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Moniak is out of options, anyway, so they don't really have a choice with him.  Use him or potentially lose him. 

Yeah he's fine, the potential benefit of him making an impact the next 3 years he's under team control far outweighs any struggles he might have this year. Was just pointing out he's one of those guys Perry is probably leaning on to pad the resume.

[AngelsFaninGA]

30 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The AL West sucks because none of the other teams have gotten to play the Angels.

The Astros are licking their chops waiting to go 15-3 against us.