Stephenson done for the year

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Another potential HOF pitcher ruined by the pitch clock. When will this madness end?

[Jeremiah]

[Vlad27Trout27]

Welp, we shall see you next year! (hopefully)

[rafibomb]

His contract is confusing me. So we can keep him next year for just the $2.5 million option and he becomes a free agent the year after in 2026?

Edited April 18 by rafibomb

[Ron Mexico]

14 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

His contract is confusing me. So we can keep him next year for just the $2.5 million option and he becomes a free agent the year after in 2026?

Pretty sure they can keep him in 2027  for 2.5 mil if they want to

[Duren, Duren]

The smartest relief pitcher ever was Mike Marshall. He became a professor of kinesiology at Michigan I believe when he retired. He threw the screwball, which was the most damaging on the arm. He micromanaged and perfected  his pitching  technique and won a Cy Young while pitching big innings. 

Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver also had great technique and relied on powerful lower bodies to anchor their deliveries. And were easy HOF pitchers who were workhorses who threw tons of innings. Without serious arm injuries. 

My point is that technique is critical. The motion, drive,  delivery, finish have to be perfected and in sync. Of course no matter what there still is strain, wear and tear and injury risk. Especially with some of the more demanding pitches. Stuff pitching coaches and trainers need to work on individually with each pitcher. There are important dynamics beside velocity and shaping pitches. 

[jsnpritchett]

17 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

His contract is confusing me. So we can keep him next year for just the $2.5 million option and he becomes a free agent the year after in 2026?

 

1 minute ago, Ron Mexico said:

Pretty sure they can keep him in 2027  for 2.5 mil if they want to

@Ron Mexico is correct.

@rafibomb, the Angels still owe him $33M for this year through 2026. The $2.5M option kicks in for 2027, if the Angels choose to exercise it. They don't have to decide until after '26.

[Stradling]

As for the opinion that “the team must have known” or “he was damaged goods” since they added that clause in his contract. It’s fairly common to have these types of stipulations in contracts these days. First contract I remember having an option like that was Lackey’s Boston deal which they also exercised. Actually I think St Louis exercised it after he was traded?  I could be mistaken. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

At least it doesn't for the Angels.  It's still amazing to me that the bullpen is seemingly a problem every single year.  At some point, it seems like just sheer dumb luck would give them a good year overall, but, nope, not recently.

Minasian has been particularly bad at building a bullpen the last 3+ years.  26th in WAR and 24th in WPA during that time.   Some of this has to do with the utter wasteland of arms that have come from the farm the last few years and why you'd draft all pitchers.  But even still, he hasn't really gotten much from that so far.  

Eppler was quite good at frankensteining the crap out the pen every year.  I haven't figured out what it is, but there is a bit of secret sauce to this as Cashman is pretty amazing at it.  pick pretty much any 4 or 5 year span and the yanks are near the top.  Eppler was dealt a similar if not worse hand with better outcomes.  

Regardless, this is a pretty significant loss imo.  

[rafibomb]

7 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

@Ron Mexico is correct.

@rafibomb, the Angels still owe him $33M for this year through 2026. The $2.5M option kicks in for 2027, if the Angels choose to exercise it. They don't have to decide until after '26.

ahhhh bummer i totally misread the years

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

As for the opinion that “the team must have known” or “he was damaged goods” since they added that clause in his contract. It’s fairly common to have these types of stipulations in contracts these days. First contract I remember having an option like that was Lackey’s Boston deal which they also exercised. Actually I think St Louis exercised it after he was traded?  I could be mistaken. 

You are correct. 

[rafibomb]

What once looked like a strength in spring the pen looks suspicious as hell with the Stephenson injury, Soriano moving to the rotation and Joyce pitching with his eyes closed in the minors.

[m0nkey]

Thank you, Perry!

[EDinTUSTIN]

15 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

The smartest relief pitcher ever was Mike Marshall. He became a professor of kinesiology at Michigan I believe when he retired. He threw the screwball, which was the most damaging on the arm. He micromanaged and perfected  his pitching  technique and won a Cy Young while pitching big innings. 

Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver also had great technique and relied on powerful lower bodies to anchor their deliveries. And were easy HOF pitchers who were workhorses who threw tons of innings. Without serious arm injuries. 

My point is that technique is critical. The motion, drive,  delivery, finish have to be perfected and in sync. Of course no matter what there still is strain, wear and tear and injury risk. Especially with some of the more demanding pitches. Stuff pitching coaches and trainers need to work on individually with each pitcher. There are important dynamics beside velocity and shaping pitches. 

Good post Duren, Duren. Excellent points and analysis. A lot of the greats, Nolan, Seaver, Gaylord Perry all pitched a long, long time -- Perry until he was 44 -- and they pitched quality ball up to the end -- without ever really having a sore arm or any significant arm injury. Some of it is genetics, most likely, but more of the fact that they pitch correctly, stretch and take care of their arms and bodies, and use the right muscles to generate power. All of them were hard throwers as well.

[Angel Oracle]

Are the increased spin rates another culprit?

[EDinTUSTIN]

8 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Are the increased spin rates another culprit?

I wonder that as well, plus the prevalence now in youth baseball of young boys increasingly throwing more breaking pitches, which I think is foolhardy -- or ignorant -- of the adults in charge. A lot of pro pitchers pitched a significant amount of innings, incurring wear and tear on developing muscles, bone plates, ligaments and tendons, and cartilage in their shoulders, arms, and elbows by the time they graduate from high school. When I watch the LLWS in Williamsport, you see it all the time. A lot of pitchers in pro ball have been pitching since they were young boys, and often doing so with poor throwing mechanics, fundamentals, and with well-meaning, but ill-trained and poor coaching. All of this is bearing bitter fruit, and has been for the past couple of decades now.

[jsnpritchett]

I'm curious what they'll say tomorrow about next steps--assuming he hasn't already had a procedure and they're just not officially saying yet. If it's full Tommy John, it's highly, highly unlikely that he'd be back at the start of next season. Something like June/July or later would be much more likely. 

If it's an "internal brace" procedure and not a full reconstruction, maaaaybe he's back at the start of next year. 

 

 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

As for the opinion that “the team must have known” or “he was damaged goods” since they added that clause in his contract. It’s fairly common to have these types of stipulations in contracts these days. First contract I remember having an option like that was Lackey’s Boston deal which they also exercised. Actually I think St Louis exercised it after he was traded?  I could be mistaken. 

You say it’s fairly common, but then go on to cite a nearly 15 year old contract as the example.

I don’t think it’s that common, and the inclusion of the option is a pretty good indicator they knew his health wasn’t 100%.

[Blarg]

6 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

There goes 11 million dollars.

If the Angels use their 2027 option the contract comes out to $8.875 million per year. 

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, BTH said:

You say it’s fairly common, but then go on to cite a nearly 15 year old contract as the example.

I don’t think it’s that common, and the inclusion of the option is a pretty good indicator they knew his health wasn’t 100%.

Yea read what I wrote. I said it’s fairly common AND the FIRST one I remember was the Lackey contract. 

[redoctober2002]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

It’s fairly common to have these types of stipulations in contracts these days.

Is it? I'd have to go research it but I can't think of too many contracts off the top of my head that had an option like that when the deal was announced.

[Stradling]

I guess I better phrase would have been it isn’t unheard of to include options like this. Either way it isn’t anything new or it isn’t in the contract because he was damaged goods. Common sense tells you that you aren’t giving $33 million to a guy who you think has an elbow injury. 

[DMVol]

10 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Minasian has been particularly bad at building a bullpen the last 3+ years.  26th in WAR and 24th in WPA during that time.   Some of this has to do with the utter wasteland of arms that have come from the farm the last few years and why you'd draft all pitchers.  But even still, he hasn't really gotten much from that so far.  

Getting Iglesias from the Reds his first offseason in a salary dump (traded Noe Ramirez) was a solid deal.  But we then salary dumped him to the Braves, unfortunately, where he is still pretty good. 

[Erstad Grit]

Criticism of the angels because of the injury is not grounded in reality. Look around the league and count the injuries. If you think spending on a RP was dumb, that might be fair. 

Edited April 18 by Erstad Grit

[Jay]