Bobby Valentine: Perry was set to trade Ohtani at deadline, Arte stopped him

[Slegnaac]

22 hours ago, mmc said:

 

@Taylor how can I have any belief in this when it says, "But just know we had really discussions."

[TheLordofOuts]

Arte kinda sucks at owning a baseball team

[Docwaukee]

The shittiest part about this one way or another is that we all want this to be the type of franchise where keeping him would have made sense.  So it's just a double kick in the nuts that it really was the right choice considering where this org currently stands.  

And really it doesn't matter whether Arte said no or Shohei said no.  I wouldn't/don't blame either of them for that decision.  And it's just a bummer that it actually makes sense.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 12/14/2023 at 5:20 PM, Ron Mexico said:

I truly believe it's half true. Ohtani had his heart as a Dodger and gave the Angels a 80/20% chance to match . 

Even assuming that there was a total match and the money was equal, if you're Ohtani, do you sign with a team pretty much guaranteed to make the post-season, or sign with one pretty much guaranteed not to?

I was watching the Sabres-Golden Knights game a while ago. They were showing the Sabres' current playoff drought, the longest in the NHL. Then they showed playoff droughts in other major sports leagues for comparison. #1 in MLB? The Angels, tied with the Tigers. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Detroit Tigers are the yardstick against which this team is compared. Just in case you wonder why free agents won't sign here.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Vegas Halo Fan

[REDneck]

2 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

The shittiest part about this one way or another is that we all want this to be the type of franchise where keeping him would have made sense.  So it's just a double kick in the nuts that it really was the right choice considering where this org currently stands.  

And really it doesn't matter whether Arte said no or Shohei said no.  I wouldn't/don't blame either of them for that decision.  And it's just a bummer that it actually makes sense.  

I just made a similar post in another thread. The gist is that it just doesn't make sense for the Halos to sign him at that price, but it does for an organization like the Dodgers to some degree.

 

 

[disarcina]

I really felt he was Los Angeles Dodgers bound for at least a year now, if not longer.

He should have been dealt at deadline time to a team that could have competed with the Dodgers to sign him long term.

We would have gotten some top notch pitching prospects and the team that acquired him (Yankees, Seattle, SF ?) would have gotten not only a very valuable player for the stretch run -- but also two plus months to convince Ohtani to sign with them instead of Los Angeles.

I said that then back before deadline - so no Monday morning quarterbacking here.

[disarcina]

Angels. will draw 25,000 to 30,000 a game,

The franchise will turn a profit.

Merchandise sales (minus Ohtani) will  be down.

The Angels will end up fighting Oakland/ Las Vegas for fourth place in the AL West .

Halos win total for 2024 :  74

Trout will play 125 games.

 

 

[Angels 1961]

Ohtani gave Arte chance to match, and he didn't. So, you cannot blame Ohtani's team it was Arte's fault. Ohtani very smart man.

[stormngt]

On 12/14/2023 at 5:56 PM, cals said:

So it changes my opinion of Ohtani if he did in fact want to stay with the Angels but took the Dodgers money when Moreno wouldn’t match.  

And it’s absolutely asinine for Moreno not to match whatever was being offered by other teams after he chose not to trade him.  

What it tells me is the Angels front office severely underestimated what he was going to get (like most of us here).

This

[stormngt]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:02 PM, Docwaukee said:

Committing $700mil to Ohtani essentially obligates you to a lot more than that.  

I would have to guess that any 'opportunity' to match the Dogs contract would have also included various stipulations in regard to a commitment to win.  Betting there was a more robust opt out clause than the dogs were given.  

the dogs are going to have a huge payroll regardless of one player.  The Angels likely aren't or at least Arte wouldn't want one player to dictate how he was going to run his business over the next 10 years and the impact of that over 20.  

Think of it this way.  Ohtani created space for the Dogs to add payroll in the first 10 years and still owe him almost 70m per after that stint is over.  

Was it ever realistic for Arte to guarantee a payroll of $230+ mil for Ohtani's first 10 years AND give him another 700m for the following 10?  That's probably closer to a commitment of a billion dollars actually.  

Throwing big money at the team once in awhile is a lot different than a 20 year commitment for a 77 year old man who's almost sold the team once recently.  

And let's be honest.  It's a lot easier to tell the fanbase that you want the team to be competitive and roll with a competitive payroll than to be forced into your max limits for a decade.  

It doesnt work that way.  For ten years, Ohtani will get 2 million for direct pay, and another 68 million put into a deferred account.  Dogs pay 70 million for ten years.  Ohtabi collects 10 million fir furst ten years and then collect 68 million a year for the next ten.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, stormngt said:

It doesnt work that way.  For ten years, Ohtani will get 2 million for direct pay, and another 68 million put into a deferred account.  Dogs pay 70 million for ten years.  Ohtabi collects 10 million fir furst ten years and then collect 68 million a year for the next ten.

I believe it is $44 mil put into the deferred account annually.

[Tank]

4 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I believe it is $44 mil put into the deferred account annually.

add to that the $2 mil annual pay and that's where the cap hit of $46 mil comes from, correct?

[ScottT]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:59 PM, jsnpritchett said:

No clue what you mean here.

Lol

[ScottT]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:08 PM, disarcina said:

Angels. will draw 25,000 to 30,000 a game,

The franchise will turn a profit.

Merchandise sales (minus Ohtani) will  be down.

The Angels will end up fighting Oakland/ Las Vegas for fourth place in the AL West .

Halos win total for 2024 :  74

Trout will play 125 games.

 

 

Merchandise sales are shared. Ticket sales are shared with the visiting team, I believe.  Stadium sponsorships, local TV, is where the Angels lose out

But they'll be fine.  Arte will still make a ton if he sells.  

[Chitown27Fan]

Of course they came back to the Angels to give Arte a chance to match ummm maybe. I think they came back to him to raise the bid over the 700 million in order to push the dogs higher for him to go to his already desired and chosen location of LA. All this non sense is about his agent trying to make more chedder for him the more sho gets the more he gets. He also will forever have the ability to tell new clients look what I got for Sho I can try and get you the big bag to. I agree with the statment that we should have traded and then gave our best shot for him in FA as many on here said at the time. 

 

[Ron Mexico]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:27 PM, Angels 1961 said:

Ohtani gave Arte chance to match, and he didn't. So, you cannot blame Ohtani's team it was Arte's fault. Ohtani very smart man.

That's what they want you to believe to save face. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

Arte truly is one of the worst owners in sports. I hate him so fucking much.

[stormngt]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:44 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

I believe it is $44 mil put into the deferred account annually.

2 mil x 10 years = 20 million

44 mil x 10 years = 46 million

So how is his contract 700 million?

 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

2 mil x 10 years = 20 million

44 mil x 10 years = 46 million

So how is his contract 700 million?

 

Because it's actually ($2M X 10 years) + ($68M X 10 years) = $700M total.  All the other stuff is just accounting and luxury tax equations.  Ohtani will receive a total of $700M from the Dodgers, $20M of which will be paid in "real time" over the next 10 years, and $680M of which will be deferred and paid out in equal increments over the following 10 years.

[Taylor]

10 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

That's what they want you to believe to save face. 

Next time your son is playing little league with Dino Ebel's son or whatever, get some more tea.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

Because it's actually ($2M X 10 years) + ($68M X 10 years) = $700M total.  All the other stuff is just accounting and luxury tax equations.  Ohtani will receive a total of $700M from the Dodgers, $20M of which will be paid in "real time" over the next 10 years, and $680M of which will be deferred and paid out in equal increments over the following 10 years.

Thats what i thought.

 

I still dont understabd why differed money is counted less than real money.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Thats what i thought.

 

I still dont understabd why differed money is counted less than real money.

Because $68M in 2043 is "worth" significantly less than $68M in 2024. 

[stormngt]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

Because $68M in 2043 is "worth" significantly less than $68M in 2024. 

So they know exactly how much interest rate will average over time?

Bullshit.  He is paid during his first ten years for first ten years of service.  He just doesnt access 68 million.  Dies his account collect interest duribg that ten years?

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, stormngt said:

So they know exactly how much interest rate will average over time?

Bullshit.  He is paid during his first ten years for first ten years of service.  He just doesnt access 68 million.  Dies his account collect interest duribg that ten years?

There's a set interest rate that is factored into their calculation for the net present value of the money and how much will count against the luxury tax.  Not sure why you're up in arms about this.  It's a standard calculation that's used for any contract with deferred money.  The Dodgers aren't doing anything shady here. 

[stormngt]

58 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

There's a set interest rate that is factored into their calculation for the net present value of the money and how much will count against the luxury tax.  Not sure why you're up in arms about this.  It's a standard calculation that's used for any contract with deferred money.  The Dodgers aren't doing anything shady here. 

My point is he is given money (either in direct payment or in deferred payments) for ten years of work.  The entire contract should be based on ten year average.  Thats all.  I don't  mind Ohtani going to the Dogs.  I mind the "loophole" to avoid the tax.  I dont like it.