MLB Trade Rumors: Angels Offseason Outlook

[Angel Oracle]

11 hours ago, Blarg said:

Look, you've been cruising Leonard Toes highway for as long, if not longer, than the Angels lack of success.

But you are correct if you believe the Angels shouldn't resign Ohtani. He is a personal records generator and fun to watch but kills the team with his demand to pitch only once every six games and hogs the DH spot not giving any other players a productive day off the field. 

Let the unicorn run free and start building a solid five man rotation that can set aside that extra (crap) starter for a good pen guy. Then rotate players through the DH role to keep them healthy and I think you'll see more wins instead of an MVP trophy and a sub .500 record.

That’s fair enough, and totally agree to move on from Ohtani.

Let someone else way overpay, and not know if he is even going to be effective on the mound anymore (2nd surgeries being much more difficult to come back from).   Give the DH spot to Rendon, and mix in Trout from time to time.

Thank Ohtani for what he brought, even though they didn’t get any closer to success, and going forward build a balanced approach that isn’t way too top heavy.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

This!

The best player in baseball is clogging up the works. It's like chess. Sacrifice the piece that's in the way and free up the board. Also save $500 million that can be used better elsewhere.

Can sign a needed proven RHP starter and THREE proven relievers, and maybe even a proven OF, and still spend a LOT, LOT less than $500 million total and not clog up payroll for 8-10 years.

But sadly, we are talking about an owner who seems to prefer the Ringling Bros environment.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[DMVol]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

That’s fair enough, and totally agree to move on from Ohtani.

Let someone else way overpay, and not know if he is even going to be effective on the mound anymore (2nd surgeries being much more difficult to come back from).   Give the DH spot to Rendon, and mix in Trout from time to time.

Thank Ohtani for what he brought, even though they didn’t get any closer to success, and going forward build a balanced approach that isn’t way too top heavy.

If Rendon can stay reasonably healthy (yeah  right), I would think you would want to play him at 3b as much as possible.  I'm not sure any of his injuries have happened in the field.  Foul ball off the shin, wrist (which I guess was a hitting thing?), groin (base running?)....not sure where the hip thing came from two years ago.....

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

If Rendon can stay reasonably healthy (yeah  right), I would think you would want to play him at 3b as much as possible.  I'm not sure any of his injuries have happened in the field.  Foul ball off the shin, wrist (which I guess was a hitting thing?), groin (base running?)....not sure where the hip thing came from two years ago.....

His throws are a problem though.

Let him fill in at 3B from time to time, when Trout needs to DH.

Rengifo has the arm, and for the past 2 seasons the hitting, to handle a lot of the 3B starts (say 2/3 of them).

[DMVol]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

His throws are a problem though.

Let him fill in at 3B from time to time, when Trout needs to DH.

Rengifo has the arm, and for the past 2 seasons the hitting, to handle a lot of the 3B starts (say 2/3 of them).

His throwing was a problem but he's missed so much time since 2020 that you have to think he'd settle back in to being a good defensive 3bman (which he was when we signed him) if he could ever get in to an everyday routine.  I know, I know....

[AngelStew43]

I'm starting to come around to the possibility that we may actually field a better team without Ohtani, health permitting.  

Trout and Rendon would both benefit from time as the DH, time that they can't have while Ohtani is here.  

The financials could be spread among more players, possibly leading to a better on field product. 

[fan_since79]

Arte loves his shiny objects though. I hope that he passes on Ohtani, sells the team, and enjoys his billions in profit.

 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I'm starting to come around to the possibility that we may actually field a better team without Ohtani, health permitting.  

Trout and Rendon would both benefit from time as the DH, time that they can't have while Ohtani is here.  

The financials could be spread among more players, possibly leading to a better on field product. 

Truth be told, Ohtani is so entertaining and once-in-a-lifetime that I honestly do not mind if they re-sign him, even if it makes it more difficult to compete. Would I love to see the Angels win? Absolutely, but seeing Ohtani play is rarer than seeing your favorite time compete - generally. I'm young enough that I have hopefully a few decades still of watching Angels baseball, and I enjoyed the aughts. 

But I can also appreciate what he did while he was here and agree that freeing up the DH spot, the money, returning to a more traditional rotation set-up, all of that could be as beneficial over a few years. 

Would be great to see Ohtani and Trout win here though - even if it's later in their careers and the team is leaning much more heavily on a whole new crop of youngsters. And I think it's doable. But something does have to give in how Arte operates, how the team develops talent, and/or how the front office, analytics, and coaching staff collaborate.

[greginpsca]

31 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I'm starting to come around to the possibility that we may actually field a better team without Ohtani, health permitting.  

Trout and Rendon would both benefit from time as the DH, time that they can't have while Ohtani is here.  

The financials could be spread among more players, possibly leading to a better on field product. 

Financials can also be spread among Development and drafting/ scouting.

[Angels 1961]

43 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Arte loves his shiny objects though. I hope that he passes on Ohtani, sells the team, and enjoys his billions in profit.

 

I think Ohtani will pass on Arte.

[Angel Oracle]

One thing to consider with Bellinger is that while his OPS vs LHP was up and down through 2022, it improved way more vs LHP in 2023 to over .900.

He’s always hit RHP pretty well (career .851 OPS).

Combined with his strong defense, he may be a good guy to bring in on a reasonable length/money contract like say 5 years/$100 million?  Only turns 29 in 2024 season.

The Halos, assuming they are smart to move on from big money to be/soon to be age 30 Ohtani and his pitching question mark, will have some $70-75 million to spend and can spread it out a lot better without going over the tax threshold and without tying up anyone to a ridiculously long contract like Judge’s.

Say Bellinger, a proven RHP starting pitcher, and 2-3 proven relievers including a closer?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[BTH]

58 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Combined with his strong defense, he may be a good guy to bring in on a reasonable length/money contract like say 5 years/$100 million?  Only turns 29 in 2024 season.

Scott Boras laughs at that suggestion.

He’s probably looking more at the Heyward contract (8/$184M) or even the Yelich (9/$215M) contract.

Beli is the top position player free agent in a weak FA class. He’s gonna get PAID.

[Blarg]

Everyone yells about rebuild from the farm but when faced with the growing pains they all turn to high priced free agents.

Ward, Adell and Moniak are out of options. You bring in Bellinger and one of them has to go. 

I would categorize Bellinger as an Arte pick. They don't need him and it removes a younger, cheaper player from the roster for the hope of banner value. I don't Bellinger is a draw and the Angels need more parts than that last finishing piece.  

 

[Angels 1961]

Bellinger is not signing with Angels. Top FA pitchers are not signing with Angels. Giolito and Lorenzen are type that might come here. Again no way Bellinger is signing with halos. When all winter you hear Minasian has talked to Bellinger do not get your hopes up. 

[AngelStew43]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Everyone yells about rebuild from the farm but when faced with the growing pains they all turn to high priced free agents.

Ward, Adell and Moniak are out of options. You bring in Bellinger and one of them has to go. 

I would categorize Bellinger as an Arte pick. They don't need him and it removes a younger, cheaper player from the roster for the hope of banner value. I don't Bellinger is a draw and the Angels need more parts than that last finishing piece.  

 

Not really.  If Ohtani goes, then the DH spot is open.  We have the 4 OF, like you said, and we needed every one of them, and then some.  If Ohtani leaves, we'd be a little light on LH power.  

Bellinger also plays GG defense at 3 positions, RF, CF and 1B.  So if Schaunel somehow needs some more development time, Bellinger is a very good 1B option. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Ward, Adell and Moniak are out of options. You bring in Bellinger and one of them has to go. 

If you watched the Angels the last two seasons, you’d know that these “problems” always answer themselves.

Last year, everyone wondered how Urshela, Drury, Rengifo, etc. were all gonna play. And by August, Velazquez was starting everyday.

Injuries happen and they’ll happen again.

[Angel Oracle]

I’m over Adell, so Bellinger in RF, Trout/Moniak in CF, and Ward/Moniak in LF works.

Plus with the slump he went through in 2021-22, I don’t see Bellinger getting 7-8 years/$155-$180 million.   Now, if someone was crazy enough to offer him that, then it’s time to move on to someone else.

5 years/$100 million, based on the two slump years prior to 2023, seems like a good max offer.   He was successful from 2017-2020.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

5 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

I'm starting to come around to the possibility that we may actually field a better team without Ohtani, health permitting.  

When I look at all of the hoops that the club jumped through for him, I am inclined to agree. It extended their pitching rotation (what team has five good starters, let alone six). If he couldn't pitch, it altered everyone else's routine. The manager couldn't make out the lineup card until finding out whether Ohtani was in or out. Amazing talent, but there are serious questions about the effects of letting one player call so many shots. I doubt that any other team will give him that kind of latitude.

[Duren, Duren]

Six years of Trout and Ohtani couldn't even propel the team to .500. Granted there were significant  injury absences. But the team around them just wasn't good enough. And no one else emerged to take advantage of the opportunity to lead by example. And even when healthy Trout and Ohtani's MVP level numbers weren't enough. 

At this point I just think the Ohtani story is over for the Angels. But I don't see him leaving as a disaster. 

They lose the glamor, prestige factor. And obviously the big offensive everyday production. But if Trout gets close enough to his past form, Rendon adds even average production and someone else emerges offensively then the team can compensate. 

I don't have much faith in Adell. After three or so years of small sample major league exposure he just hasn't progressed enough to be counted on for major help. Schanuel is the most likely emerging offensive talent and O'Hoppe should hit 20 plus homers. Throw in Drury, Moniak and another proven veteran via trade or free agency and the offense should be respectable. 

I actually would like more speed and aggression on the basepaths but you'd think that the new manager will have a big say in team construction. Recent managers just kept the same status quo, home run philosophy. 

Ohtani will be missed more on the mound. But he didn't work in a regular rotation and wasn't a workhorse. He was spectacular in many starts but then blisters and the big injury cut down his usage. If the team can find a couple of at least average  veterans to go along with (hopefully)  improving  Detmers, Canning and Sandoval then they should be solid enough. Add in Anderson who needs to be better and get away from his habit of allowing an early big inning. And of course the emergence of Silseth and/or any of the younger guys could improve the mix.

The team image and marketability will hurt off the field and in dollars big time around the baseball world when Ohtani signs elsewhere. How many of those current Ohtani fans you see at games and in the merchandise store will still follow the team? I guess we'll find out with next season's attendence numbers. 

Still, I actually am looking forward to a new chapter with the team. It's been stale and frustrating despite Ohtani and Trout having MVP production. The style and philosophy have been redundant and unsuccessful. a new manager and revamped roster should add some intrigue.

It will take some time for things to gel and there will be growing pains. Ideally a new owner would fast track things. But maybe Arte will  finally step back enough to let Perry have more control. Adaptation is key to survival. With teams as well as species. 

 

[greginpsca]

I think Bellinger goes East, for the big $$$. If so, we keep a draft pick that will be sorely needed going forward. 

[Wisconsin27]

I know I shouldn't regurgitate this, but can't help myself.

Under Arte, I didn't ever feel it was going to be a good idea to resign Ohtani from an organizational perspective.  Three really high-priced players, none of who pitch, and all of whom would be 29+ and signed for multiple years simply never made sense with an owner that was luxury-tax avoidant.  There was simply no way to put the necessary roster, specifically to pitching, around those three with a salary ceiling.  It's why I'll never understand why we didn't trade him for max value earlier.  And as a fan, it pains me to say this because he's been awesome to watch.

There are no easy solutions moving forward, particularly with the free agent class being so weak.  I'm bracing myself for some ridiculous move, initiated by Arte, for someone that will put butts in the seats/generate excitement to the casual fan that will ultimately be a disaster (and certainly not for pitching).  It's the cycle we've been on over and over again, but has been successful for Arte's business plan.

Sorry for the rant.

[BTH]

50 minutes ago, Wisconsin27 said:

I'm bracing myself for some ridiculous move, initiated by Arte, for someone that will put butts in the seats/generate excitement to the casual fan that will ultimately be a disaster (and certainly not for pitching). 

I’ve been thinking the same thing, but I have no idea who that is.

I don’t think Ohtani’s re-signing.

Maybe Bellinger?

Maybe Snell, but that’s a pitcher and not a hitter.

The nightmare scenario is he does something super dumb like taking on Giancarlo Stanton.

[Stradling]

Arte isn’t taking on a bad contract via trade unless it is to remove a bad contract. If we bring on a bad contract it will be Ohtani, Bellinger or Snell. 

[DMVol]

55 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Arte isn’t taking on a bad contract via trade unless it is to remove a bad contract. If we bring on a bad contract it will be Ohtani, Bellinger or Snell. 

I think the best move Minasian has made was RIglesias from the Reds in his first year…I don’t know that it was a “bad contract” trade but it was definitely a salary dump, really good player for Noe Ramirez…I’d make that kind of trade again…some of the other “salary dump” deals haven’t been as good, Renfroe, JIglesias but I’d still look at those kind of deals, particularly if we have money to spend without Ohtani…

[Junkballer]

I can't see bringing in Bellinger when they will need to significantly invest in the pitching staff.  They desperately need a top of the rotation arm.  Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Silseth and Daniels/Suarez (or whichever #5) could be anywhere from AL average with complete health, bounceback from Sandy and continued development from the others, or a disaster.  But, the latter seems far more likely than the former because they won't all stay healthy.  Even if they invest in the bullpen and bring in someone to demote or challenge Estevez as closer, they still need that starter that will anchor the rotation and that won't be cheap.

I'd prefer Moniak compete with Adell and some to-be-named veteran for LF and utilize Bellinger money on the pitching staff.  If Ward can regroup it will still be a strong offensive OF.  Just wish that it was a more robust FA class for arms.