OC Register: Shohei Ohtani ‘turned down’ Angels’ offer of imaging weeks before elbow injury

[AngelsWin.com]

NEW YORK — Perry Minasian wanted to set the record straight in the wake of rampant questions about the way the Angels handled Shohei Ohtani in the weeks leading up to his injury.

The Angels general manager called the media together in the dugout before Saturday’s game to reveal that the team offered to have Ohtani undergo imaging earlier this month.

“He and his representation turned it down,” Minasian said. “I understand why. It was a cramp in his finger and they didn’t believe it warranted imaging.”

Three weeks later, Ohtani was diagnosed with a torn ulnar collateral ligament that will prevent him from pitching for at least the rest of this season.

Minasian said there is no reason to believe any injury existed before Wednesday, when Ohtani came out of the game. An MRI exam Wednesday revealed the tear.

“From the information we have, it happened that last game,” Minasian said.

Ohtani’s side is operating off the same information to which Minasian referred. Minasian obviously would not have offered the clarification to the media without clearing it with Ohtani and his agent, Nez Balelo.

“I have a great relationship with Nez and Sho and obviously Ippei (Mizuhara) is part of that,” Minasian said. “Obviously the three years we’ve worked together have been productive years.”

Minasian offered no further information about the severity of the tear, or about what the timeline is for Ohtani to determine his course of treatment. If he needs a second Tommy John surgery, he would not able to pitch until 2025. He could still hit for most of the time in between, as he is doing now.

Ohtani had issues with blisters and a cracked nail in July, and he left his Aug. 3 start after four innings because of cramping in his finger. At that time, the Angels offered the imaging.

Minasian said it is always ultimately up to the player to decide what tests he undergoes.

“It’s a relationship of trust,” Minasian said. “The player and I have done it for three years. I believe he’s had three pretty good seasons doing it the way we did it. Me personally, I have zero regrets. It happens. There are injuries that happen in baseball. And this is an unfortunate one. That is obviously tough for us, tough for him and tough for the game. He’s obviously great to watch on both sides.”

Ohtani took the ball again for his normal turn a week after the cramping incident. He was able to get through his start Aug. 9, although afterward he said he didn’t feel like himself. He then asked to have a start skipped because of fatigue, so the Angels allowed him two weeks before the start against the Cincinnati Reds.

“Didn’t go on the IL,” Minasian said. “He kept playing, kept hitting. Felt good when he threw. He was ready to pitch. He knows himself as well as anybody. When he says ‘I’m ready to go,’ there’s nobody I believe more. Let me put it that way.”

NOTES

First baseman Nolan Schanuel was scratched from the Angels lineup Saturday because of what manager Phil Nevin described as food poisoning. Nevin said “hopefully” Schanuel would be able to play Sunday. …

Shortstop Zach Neto (lower back inflammation) said he ran, played catch and was to begin taking dry swings Saturday, his second day of baseball activity since going on the injured list. He said there’s no timetable for his return. “I’m actually feeling way better,” he said. “Sometimes I wake up a little sore, but that soreness is going away day by day.”

UP NEXT

Angels (RHP Griffin Canning, 7-4, 4.61) vs. Mets (LHP David Peterson, 3-7, 5.59), 9:05 a.m. Sunday, Citi Field, Peacock, 830 AM

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[BTH]

1 hour ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Ohtani’s side is operating off the same information to which Minasian referred. Minasian obviously would not have offered the clarification to the media without clearing it with Ohtani and his agent, Nez Balelo.

Thank you.

There are some people on Twitter who can't get that through their brains.

[Chico]

Who is in charge here, Minasian or Ohtani? If you want a player to go for an MRI, they should go for an MRI. 

[UndertheHalo]

59 minutes ago, Chico said:

Who is in charge here, Minasian or Ohtani? If you want a player to go for an MRI, they should go for an MRI. 

After all this time with Ohtani, you still somehow thought the Angels were running that ship? That’s your bad my guy.  

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Chico said:

Who is in charge here, Minasian or Ohtani? If you want a player to go for an MRI, they should go for an MRI. 

There is nothing the Angels can do, healthcare is an individuals choice. 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Chico said:

Who is in charge here, Minasian or Ohtani? If you want a player to go for an MRI, they should go for an MRI. 

Maybe they should have put a gun to his head and make him go.

[gurn67]

That's why I think there is a higher chance that he stays now, at least for the next couple of years. One thing he gets from Moreno, that he can't guarantee that he will get elsewhere is he gets to do whatever he wants here. He obviously wants to play every single game. Maybe he didn't know the extent of the injury after the first game of the doubleheader, but he knew he was hurt. He still went out and played the 2nd game. I can't think of any other current player that would have done that. 

Arte will have to give him an opt out, maybe even multiple opt outs, to get it done though. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

There is nothing the Angels can do, healthcare is an individuals choice. 

This is spot on. You cannot compel anyone to undergo any medical procedure or test, in the absence of a court order.

[Lazorko Saves]

3 hours ago, Chico said:

Who is in charge here, Minasian or Ohtani? If you want a player to go for an MRI, they should go for an MRI. 

I forget exactly how Wayne worded it in the broadcast, but he made it clear teams have no authority to force players to do it.  Presumably there's some text in the CBA about this scenario that gives players the right to decline imaging.

[Jay]

16 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Perry Minasian wanted to set the record straight in the wake of rampant questions about the way the Angels handled Shohei Ohtani in the weeks leading up to his injury.

The Angels general manager called the media together in the dugout before Saturday’s game to reveal that the team offered to have Ohtani undergo imaging earlier this month.

“He and his representation turned it down,” Minasian said. “I understand why. It was a cramp in his finger and they didn’t believe it warranted imaging.”

 

[Swordsman78]

Ben Verlander is getting roasted on Twitter for jumping the gun and blaming the Angels.

 

People are DONE with him.  
 

Such a hater.

[BTH]

56 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Ben Verlander is getting roasted on Twitter for jumping the gun and blaming the Angels.

 

People are DONE with him.  
 

Such a hater.

Sad fall from grace for Alex Curry, who is now stuck co-hosting a podcast with that bozo.

[hangin n wangin]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

Sad fall from grace for Alex Curry, who is now stuck co-hosting a podcast with that bozo.

He’s probably banging her too. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Now that the dust from this bad news is settled, I'll ask the question for everyone pissed at the FO (and I don't say this to defend them).

Knowing very little, next to nothing about what causes the UCL to tear in the first place (funny enough, my partner at work yesterday has had it twice, and doesn't play baseball), what would the early MRI show?

 

I imagine it would only show "tear or no tear".

Meaning either it would still tear of he pitched again, or there was already a tear... so should he have never pitched?

 

I don't know the answer. But if I understand it correctly, I think it was going to tear at some point no matter what, as long as he was pitching baseballs. 

[Lazorko Saves]

39 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I imagine it would only show "tear or no tear".

I'm trying to remember if it was Masahiro Tanaka?   Who had either what they called "fraying" or a partial tear.  I think they shut him down, did some platelet-rich plasma injections or some such thing and he avoided Tommy John.  Still was on the shelf for a long time, though.

So theoretically, skipping an MRI at the wrong time could land you deeper in the soup.

But that's kind of irrelevant here.  We don't know yet if Ohtani has a full tear or what anyway.  And ordering an MRI for a finger cramp is maniacally hypochondriatic.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Piggybacking on what I said above. And again, I have no idea how this works (maybe @Docwaukee or @Inside Pitch would know). 

But let's say a few weeks ago Ohtani said "my arm feels sore." And they do an MRI. If it's already torn, is there anyone to really blame? 

And along with that, if they did an MRI and it wasnt torn, would the scan show "its about to tear"? And if so, do you shut him down? And if thats the case, for how long?

I'm just wondering what causes it in the first place. Does the tendon get inflamed, and you have to back off, and it rebounds to normal? Or once it's inflamed (or whatever) is it simply a matter of time before it inevitably snaps?

[Jeff Fletcher]

The Tony Gonsolin story is interesting in light of all this. 
 

I think pitchers get hurt and it’s usually no one’s fault except for the guy who 150 years ago decided they should throw overhand. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Tony Gonsolin story is interesting in light of all this. 
 

I think pitchers get hurt and it’s usually no one’s fault except for the guy who 150 years ago decided they should throw overhand. 

Again, I have no idea how the whole thing works. Off the top of my head, I don't remember anyone ever being "blamed" before this. 

But this (what you mention) is pretty much what I'm getting at. I don't think there was any way around Ohtani or any other pitcher suffering an injury, if the cause of the injury is doing their normal job.

If I understand it correctly, breaking pitches are harder on the elbow(?). So should the Angels have had Ohtani only throw fastballs?

[Slegnaac]

On 8/27/2023 at 9:02 AM, Swordsman78 said:

Ben Verlander is getting roasted on Twitter for jumping the gun and blaming the Angels.

 

People are DONE with him.  
 

Such a hater.

But "Searching for Shohei"

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Again, I have no idea how the whole thing works. Off the top of my head, I don't remember anyone ever being "blamed" before this. 

But this (what you mention) is pretty much what I'm getting at. I don't think there was any way around Ohtani or any other pitcher suffering an injury, if the cause of the injury is doing their normal job.

If I understand it correctly, breaking pitches are harder on the elbow(?). So should the Angels have had Ohtani only throw fastballs?

You're right. Generally no one gets blamed for a pitcher getting hurt.

But there are two factors at play here.

First: everyone loves Ohtani.

Second: the entire baseball world (including Angels fans) is eager to find things to criticize Angels management for. (Certainly they've brought them on themselves by making a lot of mistakes, but it still doesn't mean that everything is their fault.)

As for the thing with which pitches are more likely to cause injury, I think in general it's the velocity of fastballs that mosts leads to injuries. Guys who throw 100 will get hurt more than guys who throw 95. They used to say that splitters caused injuries, but I'm not sure if that's accepted as true any more.

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You're right. Generally no one gets blamed for a pitcher getting hurt.

But there are two factors at play here.

First: everyone loves Ohtani.

Second: the entire baseball world (including Angels fans) is eager to find things to criticize Angels management for. (Certainly they've brought them on themselves by making a lot of mistakes, but it still doesn't mean that everything is their fault.)

As for the thing with which pitches are more likely to cause injury, I think in general it's the velocity of fastballs that mosts leads to injuries. Guys who throw 100 will get hurt more than guys who throw 95. They used to say that splitters caused injuries, but I'm not sure if that's accepted as true any more.

We have kids throwing year round and throwing curve balls at early age. You have most pitchers throwing 95 plus at younger ages than ever before. Money has players trying to play thru injury. I think Ohtani knew something might be wrong but so much is expecting of him by fans and Ohtani himself. I wish him nothing but the best but also feel it might be time for halos to move in a new direction. Maybe it's time for Ohtani to go the Babe Ruth route and become an OF.

[DMVol]

58 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

…..Maybe it's time for Ohtani to go the Babe Ruth route and become an OF.

^^^^  It’s been fun to watch the two way thing but it may be time to consider settling in as one of the best hitters, if not the best, in the game…

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Second: the entire baseball world (including Angels fans) is eager to find things to criticize Angels management for.

The entire baseball world is pretty quiet about Rendon, if they’re looking for things to criticize Angels management (Arte) for.

[Jeff Fletcher]

37 minutes ago, BTH said:

The entire baseball world is pretty quiet about Rendon, if they’re looking for things to criticize Angels management (Arte) for.

Probably because they forgot he exists 

[T.G.]

It’s funny to me how some people are ready to put Ohtani in a box and suggest he pick one lane.

I don’t think he’s wired that way.