Diagnosing this franchise

[Angelsjunky]

What's wrong with the Angels franchise?

It can't just be bad luck, because variations of the same shit happens every year.

Some (@Stradling) poo-poo the superstitious idea of a curse, yet at the same time that aptly explains the phenomena ("If there's smoke, there's fire").

This year really looked differently. As recently as just a couple weeks ago, it looked like the Angels were on the way up: 41-33, eight games over .500. After a brief dip, then won three out of four games and were back to 44-37 -- and that was just a week ago. 

After tonight's game they'll be 45-43, losing 10 of the last 14 games. Trout is out for the next 1-2 months, Ohtani got bombed and hurt and Rendon is hurt again -- all within a 24 hour period. This is in the same year that their two top rookies both got hurt and missed a month or more.

So how do you explain the yearly shit-fest that is the Angels?

And please, don't rationalize. This is a team that hasn't reached the postseason in nine years or had a winning season in eight. It is quite possibly the worst franchise in MLB, despite having two generational talents. No team has gone as long without a postseason berth or winning season. This franchise is floundering and simply isn't improving.

But next year, right? Haven't we been saying that for the last half decade or more?

[Taylor]

What would we have said in November of last year?

[Jason]

Their depth has been and continues to be atrocious. This includes pitching and offense. 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

What would we have said in November of last year?

Happy Thanksgiving? 

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, Taylor said:

What would we have said in November of last year?

Shitty depth. Terrible bullpen. Weak farm system.

But again...why isn't the needle moving? Perry seemingly addressed the depth problem.

I wonder if there's something fundamentally flawed about a top-heavy team, whether it is one or two megastars. I remember when the Mariners lost Griffey, A-Rod, and Randy Johnson all within the span of a year or two, and then won 114 games (though didn't go far in the postseason). They added Ichiro, Cameron, and a bunch of other guys that ended up being better as whole than their three superstars.

The great Yankees teams of the late 90s and early 00s didn't have any megastars, just a bunch of very good to lesser star players. Until A-Rod, and then they weren't quite as good anymore.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[Taylor]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Shitty depth. Terrible bullpen. Weak farm system.

But again...why isn't the needle moving? Perry seemingly addressed the depth problem.

I wonder if there's something fundamentally flawed about a top-heavy team, whether it is one or two megastars. I remember when the Mariners lost Griffey, A-Rod, and Randy Johnson all within the span of a year or two, and then won 114 games (though didn't go far in the postseason). They added Ichiro, Cameron, and a bunch of other guys that ended up being better as whole than their three superstars.

The great Yankees teams of the late 90s and early 00s didn't have any megastars, just a bunch of very good to lesser star players. Until A-Rod, and then they weren't quite as good anymore.

Yep. Nothing is different than it was on July 4, 2022. The folks who claim "this is a new year" are delusional. It's a trend.

[tdawg87]

AIDS

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Yep. Nothing is different than it was on July 4, 2022. The folks who claim "this is a new year" are delusional. It's a trend.

It turns out that way, but...dial back to March, and the team looked a lot better than it did in October of 2022. There was reason to be at least cautious hopeful.

[full circle]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Shitty depth. Terrible bullpen. Weak farm system.

But again...why isn't the needle moving? Perry seemingly addressed the depth problem.

I wonder if there's something fundamentally flawed about a top-heavy team, whether it is one or two megastars. I remember when the Mariners lost Griffey, A-Rod, and Randy Johnson all within the span of a year or two, and then won 114 games (though didn't go far in the postseason). They added Ichiro, Cameron, and a bunch of other guys that ended up being better as whole than their three superstars.

The great Yankees teams of the late 90s and early 00s didn't have any megastars, just a bunch of very good to lesser star players. Until A-Rod, and then they weren't quite as good anymore.

It’s what I was saying in the other thread… these top heavy rosters aren’t working, and really it never does.  But fans don’t learn. 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

It turns out that way, but...dial back to March, and the team looked a lot better than it did in October of 2022. There was reason to be at least cautious hopeful.

It seems like March of every year we say, "This year is going to be different because we've added x player and replaced y player with z player."

[Angelsjunky]

6 minutes ago, full circle said:

It’s what I was saying in the other thread… these top heavy rosters aren’t working, and really it never does.  But fans don’t learn. 

Which is partially why I want them to trade Ohtani. You just know that the $650M contract will start looking bad a year or two in.

I wish the Angels would go for a "Moneyball Plus" approach: moneyball, but keep the very best homegrown guys.

Oh wait, that's the Rays.

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

It seems like March of every year we say, "This year is going to be different because we've added x player and replaced y player with z player."

Right, so what's wrong, then? Is it just poor roster construction and bad overall tactics? Why is it that it doesn't matter whether it is Dipoto, Eppler, or MInasian? 

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Right, so what's wrong, then?

Ownership. 

But he's on the right track now 

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Ownership. 

But he's on the right track now 

He is? How so?

And do we really know how much say Arte has on baseball operations?

[Taylor]

10 minutes ago, T.G. said:

But he's on the right track now

Link?

[UndertheHalo]

Angels ded imo

[AngelsFaninGA]

Not enough fiber in the team diet

[robblin17]

Terrible leadership. 

Moreno and Carpino are probably one of the worst owner/executive combos in all of sports.

A constant revolving door at GM and manager.

Trout is a great player, but seems to be incapable of rallying a team around him. He’s just not a leader at all.

Shohei lacks cultural identification to be a leader or so it seems. So you have no true leader that is a key player. 

The organization sucks at everything. They do nothing well. Until Arte Moreno sells the team, nothing is going to change. The problem is he won’t sell the team because Angels fans don’t really care about winning and are quite uneducated about baseball as a whole. We at AngelsWin are the 1%.

Angels fans will show up for a fun night at the ballpark and get to see Ohtani and Trout even though the foundation of the entire organization is completely broken. Wins and losses don’t really matter to Angels fans.

We’ve gone through this for a decade now yet we still get the nut-swingers saying everything is okay and it’s really no one’s fault. It is what it is. Until the fans start expecting better, why would Moreno need to do anything better? He’s a rich elite that only gives a shit about the bottom line and his development deal. And unfortunately, our fans are either too stupid and/or don’t care to hold him accountable for the garbage product his franchise continues to put on the field. 
 

 

[DMVol]

Poor management since the Reagins era….that includes the owner, draft evaluations, FA signings, player development…..all across the board….

[Angelsjunky]

8 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

 

Shohei lacks cultural identification to be a leader or so it seems. So you have no true leader that is a key player. 

 

That's wacist.

[Angel Oracle]

18 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Ownership. 

But he's on the right track now 

The bright side is the refraining from signing out-of-house big money FAs since Rendon, and finally trying to create more true MLB depth.

Very few teams have done really well for a solid stretch of seasons, via the sign big money out-of-house FAs strategy, since the advent of FA 46 years ago.

As has been mentioned on here, the best approach is balanced: a good farm system, keeping your best FAs, strategic acquisitions with enough balance in the lineup, and solid defense/pitching.

Minasian and Tamin did come from the Braves org.

I know that injuries are part of the game.   It just seems that the Halos have had more than the MLB average with those going back several years.    Rotten luck, or something else?

[Swordsman78]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The bright side is the refraining from signing out-of-house big money FAs since Rendon, and finally trying to create more true MLB depth.

Very few teams have done really well for a solid stretch of seasons, via the sign big money out-of-house FAs strategy, since the advent of FA 46 years ago.

As has been mentioned on here, the best approach is balanced: a good farm system, keeping your best FAs, strategic acquisitions with enough balance in the lineup, and solid defense/pitching.

Minasian and Tamin did come from the Braves org.

I know that injuries are part of the game.   It just seems that the Halos have had more than the MLB average with those going back several years.    Rotten luck, or something else?

Rotten  luck combined with the injuries occurring to the "top heavy" salary guys, and breakout talent.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Swordsman78

[ten ocho recon scout]

Well as far as the depth, we lost our CF (who was struggling), our 3B (who is always hurt), his insurance (Urshela), our hot hitting 2B, our projected 1B, our starting C, his phenom replacement, and our SS. And Moore from the pen.

Not making excuses, but that's about the entire opening day lineup (on paper)

The big disappointment is that Trout floundered, Rendon was hurt again, and Sandoval and Suarez took huge steps backward.

[AngelsMetsWS]

Teams like the Braves or Rays either lock up their young stars or let em leave in free agency. 
The big veteran contracts just seem to be franchise killers.