Trading Ohtani even if they are in it?

[Angels 1961]

31 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I know it's just AW.com daydreaming like usual (no offense, I'm just as guilty), but that Goldschmidt trade fantasy is super enticing right now.

I'm not totally writing Walsh off, yet. But you can't have both him and Rendon as huge risks.... too much riding on those two to be part of a playoff lineup.

Especially with Trout not being Superman anymore.

A premier hitter at 1B would be a huge add.

I do not think Goldschmidt will be traded. St Louis would wait and see where they are at deadline. NL Central is weak. Gio Urshela brought in for depth for Rendon now he is out for the season. I bring up Adell and Fletcher (he is hitting 380). Put Drury at 2B Renfroe at 1B Fletcher at SS. Lineup missing Rendon, Neto and Urshela changes need to be made. I would love Goldschmidt but that is not going to happen.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I was just listening to the ESPN Baseball tonight podcast that aired on Wednesday. Buster Olney and Jeff Passan. 
 

I was prepared to poo-poo these National guys spewing all the usual stuff about Ohtani.

But no.

They pretty much said everything that I’ve been saying. And I’m sure they didn’t get it from me. 
 

Worth a listen. 

[m0nkey]

[Ron Mexico]

Jeff can ya give us some bits and pieces on what they said ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[m0nkey]

They only talked about the Angels for a couple minutes.

 

Rather than selling, they've been making moves the past year to show they're aggressive about winning (Neto, Joyce, Bachman promotions).

Angels doing their best to show Ohtani that "winning matters", Angels are home.

Ohtani is a creature of habit, if the Angels can show they are competitive and are in the same ballpark financially as the Dodgers/Mets/Padres, Buster is not ruling out a return.  He's already shocked everyone once by signing here.

Passan says Ohtani has shown money isn't the biggest factor (coming over early instead of waiting until he was 25, signed a 2 year deal during arbitration though that was coming off a down year, signed a deal instead of going into arbitration (deal was still $30 million dollars though).

Ohtani has his own set of rules/catered to with the Angels, may not be guaranteed other places

 

[Ron Mexico]

Thanks m0nkey

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T-angel]

Can't trade Ohtani or risk being saddled with a curse. We don't want to end up being the Red Sox who traded Babe Ruth and didn't win a championship until like 80 years passed. But if they do, I would love it if the other team had to take Rendon as part of the trade. I would ask for just one top 5 prospect in return.  

[oldguy]

Unfortunately, I'm betting Rendon has a no-trade clause.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Random thought (that sucks). But picturing Ohtani the Dodger, sandwiched between Betts and Freeman. That would be a pretty amazing top of the order.

Which is basically Trout (Betts has almost identical numbers this year) and what Rendon was supposed to be (Freeman).

[Adam]

It would be the correct move provided they can get the haul they should

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, Adam said:

It would be the correct move provided they can get the haul they should

Assuming you knew he would re-sign, would you still think they should trade him? 

I'm not asking to be a prick, I'm genuinely curious if people would trade him even if it was some perfect world scenario where the Angels could either get the best possible return (with the usual lack of guarantees about the players coming back), or re-signing him.

[Adam]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Assuming you knew he would re-sign, would you still think they should trade him? 

I'm not asking to be a prick, I'm genuinely curious if people would trade him even if it was some perfect world scenario where the Angels could either get the best possible return (with the usual lack of guarantees about the players coming back), or re-signing him.

I think re-signing him at the variables discussed - 10/500 would a.) almost certainly prove to be an awful investment production per dollar and b.) would pretty much destroy any flexibility the team has moving forward.

I only don't trade him if I feel the team has a 20+% chance at making the ALCS. They likely have a lower chance than that of actually making the postseason

He also presents an opportunity to establish a level of organizational depth through trade that they haven't had in many years

Edited June 23, 2023 by Adam

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Adam said:

I think re-signing him at the variables discussed - 10/500 would a.) almost certainly prove to be an awful investment production per dollar and b.) would pretty much destroy any flexibility the team has moving forward.

I only don't trade him if I feel the team has a 20+% chance at making the ALCS. They likely have a lower chance than that of actually making the postseason

I too wonder if putting so much into one guy won't be a mistake.  In some ways having him limits the things the team can do at DH -- he's great and all that but for how long, and as long as he's around the issue persists.

The flip side obviously -- they aren't likely to get anything remotely as good as he is as either a pitcher or hitter in return, much less both.

Anyway, if Im being honest, I can't say I'm 100% certain there is any right move other than try to win while he's here.  It's a weird spot to be in.

[DMVol]

2 minutes ago, Adam said:

I think re-signing him at the variables discussed - 10/500 would a.) almost certainly prove to be an awful investment production per dollar and b.) would pretty much destroy any flexibility the team has moving forward.....

We have beaten the horse to death but this is the one point that hasn't been discussed enough....With Rendon, Trout and Ohtani locked in for well over $100 million, how much flexibility would Minasian have moving forward?  Not much, outside of significant trades that worked out well....

[Adam]

The worst thing that can happen is that you keep him, miss the playoffs and then he walks

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Adam said:

The worst thing that can happen is that you keep him, miss the playoffs and then he walks

I like how they have drafted, I've also liked the value Minasian has been able to obtain via trade -- neither option stands a chance of replacing Ohtani, IMO. 

Mostly I'm annoyed that the Angels have put themselves in this situation due to a near decade of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

[DMVol]

17 minutes ago, Adam said:

The worst thing that can happen is that you keep him, miss the playoffs and then he walks

I think that is maybe the most likely scenario...my crystal ball isn't always accurate, however...

[Adam]

8 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I think that is maybe the most likely scenario...my crystal ball isn't always accurate, however...

Its pretty much a lock at this point

[ten ocho recon scout]

23 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I do not think Goldschmidt will be traded. St Louis would wait and see where they are at deadline. NL Central is weak. Gio Urshela brought in for depth for Rendon now he is out for the season. I bring up Adell and Fletcher (he is hitting 380). Put Drury at 2B Renfroe at 1B Fletcher at SS. Lineup missing Rendon, Neto and Urshela changes need to be made. I would love Goldschmidt but that is not going to happen.

I think the odds of us landing Goldschmidt are about as good as zero. It's not happening, just normal fan daydream scenarios.

But he would be a great add.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, T-angel said:

Can't trade Ohtani or risk being saddled with a curse. We don't want to end up being the Red Sox who traded Babe Ruth and didn't win a championship until like 80 years passed. But if they do, I would love it if the other team had to take Rendon as part of the trade. I would ask for just one top 5 prospect in return.  

I mean.... we kept both him and Trout... and still got cursed.

The baseball gods just don't like us. I think it's the rally monkey personally.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

We have beaten the horse to death but this is the one point that hasn't been discussed enough....With Rendon, Trout and Ohtani locked in for well over $100 million, how much flexibility would Minasian have moving forward?  Not much, outside of significant trades that worked out well....

Would Moreno go over the tax threshold for 3 straight seasons (2024-2026)?

Rendon’s contract ends after 2026.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Have to look on the brightside. Ohtani likely walks. But Moreno is staying.

Dumb jokes aside, that's going to lead to a treasure trove of complaints and sh*t talk from rival fans for a long, long time.

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Would Moreno go over the tax threshold for 3 straight seasons (2024-2026)?

Rendon’s contract ends after 2026.

[Ron Mexico]

Here is a trade I seen today 

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

Mets would be skewered for making that trade!