Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[greginpsca]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

Kim will play 2nd, Croneworth 1st, and Tatis in the OF. That's what I've heard.

I think Kim and Croneworth will both move around a bit. My point was that , i think Kim will be an intregal part of their team and not be moved.

[CanadianHalo]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Does Cavan Biggio play SS at all?

Nothing pisses off Jays fans more than seeing Biggio in the lineup

[Stradling]

26 minutes ago, floplag said:

Correct, but as said its our only path the relevancy right now, we have no other options based on past actions. 
Also, you really think these prospective buyers arent in the loop?  Wouldnt you want to be?  There is no way Arte is doing this of his own accord if it would damage the sale or his profits.  I would be shocked if they were not, in fact i think they are the likely reason for the current talking points.
Im certain they want to keep Ohtani and are likely approving any spending we make from this point on. 

I didn’t say that it is our only path to relevancy.  That’s your opinion.  I’m perfectly fine trading for a SS that doesn’t cost $25-35 million.  As for the next owner being in the loop, maybe they are.  But if you and I struggle to agree how to spend someone else’s money how do you think multiple billionaires feel about agreeing on how Arte spends their money? Remember there are multiple bidders right now. One may want Senga and Dansby, one may want Correa. Hell one may want Rodon, Correa, Senga, Kimbrel and Nimmo.  

[Angels 1961]

31 minutes ago, Revad said:

And OF

For me OF not important as Moniak and Adell could fill in. Even Walsh could play in OF plus Fletcher and Rengifo have played OF. 

[Angels 1961]

This named not mentioned Luis Guillorme from Mets

[floplag]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I didn’t say that it is our only path to relevancy.  That’s your opinion.  I’m perfectly fine trading for a SS that doesn’t cost $25-35 million.  As for the next owner being in the loop, maybe they are.  But if you and I struggle to agree how to spend someone else’s money how do you think multiple billionaires feel about agreeing on how Arte spends their money? Remember there are multiple bidders right now. One may want Senga and Dansby, one may want Correa. Hell one may want Rodon, Correa, Senga, Kimbrel and Nimmo.  

No i think they all want a winning team.  
Your path doesnt move the needle, thats the problem, it doesnt affect the standings to get an medium grade upgrade at SS and trade away pitching to get it only to sign more.
Its still going to cost well over 20+M to go your route unless you think youre getting Bassitt on the cheap when most projections have him getting 15-20 alone, then you add in Adames who is estimated to get nearly 10 himself so... youre giving up Sandoval to pay nearly the same money and not get as good of an upgrade plus giving up a top young SP?

[Hubs]

Adames has been discussed significantly in this thread, but I have a new trade proposal idea when I saw this https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/brewers-rumors-catcher-trade-free-agency.html 

means there could be a fit.

But first off, BTV has Adames value too high.

He's a valuable commodity and did have a 4+ WAR. But a 40 point value is excessive for a guy with a sub .300 OBP and only a 111 OPS+ 

I get that he's valuable. But 40 points is the value they give Sandoval. They also rate Rengifo at 0.5. which although I think this board overrates him, he's an in demand young player. He's probably worth closer to say 12 points on their scale.

Then they have Stassi at a -7.8 points. Yes he struggled, but he didn't struggle in 2021. The contract he got isn't even a lot, in comparison to other catchers. And quality catching talent is a hard to come by right now.

But Stassi, Suarez, Rengifo and a prospect like Aron Vera plus a couple million say 2.5 a year to pay down Stassi's deal should be a very good package for Adames. It's probably overpaying to be honest. BTV vetoes it but they rate Adames too high and Rengifo too low. Stassi is a little harsh.

Thaiss and O'Hoppe isn't enough experience behind the dish, but veteran backups like Barnhart are available in free agency.

Tell me you wouldn't do this deal.

 

[Angels 1961]

26 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Adames has been discussed significantly in this thread, but I have a new trade proposal idea when I saw this https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/brewers-rumors-catcher-trade-free-agency.html 

means there could be a fit.

But first off, BTV has Adames value too high.

He's a valuable commodity and did have a 4+ WAR. But a 40 point value is excessive for a guy with a sub .300 OBP and only a 111 OPS+ 

I get that he's valuable. But 40 points is the value they give Sandoval. They also rate Rengifo at 0.5. which although I think this board overrates him, he's an in demand young player. He's probably worth closer to say 12 points on their scale.

Then they have Stassi at a -7.8 points. Yes he struggled, but he didn't struggle in 2021. The contract he got isn't even a lot, in comparison to other catchers. And quality catching talent is a hard to come by right now.

But Stassi, Suarez, Rengifo and a prospect like Aron Vera plus a couple million say 2.5 a year to pay down Stassi's deal should be a very good package for Adames. It's probably overpaying to be honest. BTV vetoes it but they rate Adames too high and Rengifo too low. Stassi is a little harsh.

Thaiss and O'Hoppe isn't enough experience behind the dish, but veteran backups like Barnhart are available in free agency.

Tell me you wouldn't do this deal.

 

I may overrate Rengifo but this is first year he got to play every day. Then who plays said 2B Fletcher. There is a reason so many teams want Rengifo so no I do not trade him. Suarez another young cheap starter that has improved in last year and half.  I do not think Brewers will trade Adames. Perry will find a SS or maybe 2B and play Rengifo at SS

[Warfarin]

39 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Adames has been discussed significantly in this thread, but I have a new trade proposal idea when I saw this https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/brewers-rumors-catcher-trade-free-agency.html 

means there could be a fit.

But first off, BTV has Adames value too high.

He's a valuable commodity and did have a 4+ WAR. But a 40 point value is excessive for a guy with a sub .300 OBP and only a 111 OPS+ 

I get that he's valuable. But 40 points is the value they give Sandoval. They also rate Rengifo at 0.5. which although I think this board overrates him, he's an in demand young player. He's probably worth closer to say 12 points on their scale.

Then they have Stassi at a -7.8 points. Yes he struggled, but he didn't struggle in 2021. The contract he got isn't even a lot, in comparison to other catchers. And quality catching talent is a hard to come by right now.

But Stassi, Suarez, Rengifo and a prospect like Aron Vera plus a couple million say 2.5 a year to pay down Stassi's deal should be a very good package for Adames. It's probably overpaying to be honest. BTV vetoes it but they rate Adames too high and Rengifo too low. Stassi is a little harsh.

Thaiss and O'Hoppe isn't enough experience behind the dish, but veteran backups like Barnhart are available in free agency.

Tell me you wouldn't do this deal.

 

If the Brewers are interested in catching, and they are looking to trade away a good player who is starting to get expensive but still below market value, I am assuming they would probably punt on Stassi and instead be interested in O'Hoppe.

Maybe in an alternate universe, the play was to sign Contreras, then use O'Hoppe + lesser prospects to acquire Adames?

That aside, I have to imagine the Brewers would want a young, cost-controlled catcher, not Stassi.  Adames' salary actually will only be a little more than Stassi's, so .. 

[Erstad Grit]

[Hubs]

11 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

If the Brewers are interested in catching, and they are looking to trade away a good player who is starting to get expensive but still below market value, I am assuming they would probably punt on Stassi and instead be interested in O'Hoppe.

Maybe in an alternate universe, the play was to sign Contreras, then use O'Hoppe + lesser prospects to acquire Adames?

That aside, I have to imagine the Brewers would want a young, cost-controlled catcher, not Stassi.  Adames' salary actually will only be a little more than Stassi's, so .. 

True, but I don't think it costs O' Hoppe for Adames. 

Adames is not worth as much as BTV says he is, I know I'm stuck on the OBP but a .298 OBP Is not an everyday player. That's why I don't like the idea of giving Rengifo every day AB's either. 

 

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

True, but I don't think it costs O' Hoppe for Adames. 

Adames is not worth as much as BTV says he is, I know I'm stuck on the OBP but a .298 OBP Is not an everyday player. That's why I don't like the idea of giving Rengifo every day AB's either. 

 

I am high on O'Hoppe's future but I am guessing Adames would cost a lot in a trade.  If you look at all the money flying at the star SSs, then a very good one like Adames who is paid under market would probably cost a lot in a trade.  More than we can afford to part with, IMO.

[ukyah]

56 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Adames has been discussed significantly in this thread, but I have a new trade proposal idea when I saw this https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/brewers-rumors-catcher-trade-free-agency.html 

means there could be a fit.

But first off, BTV has Adames value too high.

He's a valuable commodity and did have a 4+ WAR. But a 40 point value is excessive for a guy with a sub .300 OBP and only a 111 OPS+ 

I get that he's valuable. But 40 points is the value they give Sandoval. They also rate Rengifo at 0.5. which although I think this board overrates him, he's an in demand young player. He's probably worth closer to say 12 points on their scale.

Then they have Stassi at a -7.8 points. Yes he struggled, but he didn't struggle in 2021. The contract he got isn't even a lot, in comparison to other catchers. And quality catching talent is a hard to come by right now.

But Stassi, Suarez, Rengifo and a prospect like Aron Vera plus a couple million say 2.5 a year to pay down Stassi's deal should be a very good package for Adames. It's probably overpaying to be honest. BTV vetoes it but they rate Adames too high and Rengifo too low. Stassi is a little harsh.

Thaiss and O'Hoppe isn't enough experience behind the dish, but veteran backups like Barnhart are available in free agency.

Tell me you wouldn't do this deal.

 

i actually think you could get a better player for a similar package.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

He is on their depth chart for both positions. They have Croneworth at 2b. So Kim will probably be their utility guy.

Kim was a 3.7 WAR player last year. That is too productive of a player to put on the bench, in my opinion.

MLBTradeRumors.com mentioned they might put Tatis in LF, Kim at 2B, and Croneworth at 1B, but that doesn't seem like an ideal allocation of players at their most ideal positions (Kim is a SS and Croneworth is an above average 2B). Moving Kim and his salary would help alleviate what they just took on with Bogaerts contract. Just saying it wouldn't shock me if they kept Kim, but it also wouldn't shock me if they moved him to a team like the Angels that probably don't want to fork out a mega-deal to one of the remaining FA SS's.

[CanadianHalo]

14 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

This tweet was from 4 days ago and I have no reason to believe it’s a legit Twitter account 

[ten ocho recon scout]

15 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

"They weren't strong offers"

Minasian, who offered Sawnson "maybe if we can't get someone better we'll sign you"

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Reference the Pads, and what to do with Tatis, isn't he suspended all next year anyway?

[Hubs]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I am high on O'Hoppe's future but I am guessing Adames would cost a lot in a trade.  If you look at all the money flying at the star SSs, then a very good one like Adames who is paid under market would probably cost a lot in a trade.  More than we can afford to part with, IMO.

If he were under contract, BTV would have his value a bit lower but since there is no contract to weigh against his value, it's just the current arbitration salary, he's overvalued on their site.

He is a solid defensive SS (but I'd prefer a higher OBP guy in that role like he was in 2021) and is a very productive player. Yet, that value is significantly higher than what I think he'd be actually obtained for. 

Rengifo, Suarez and Stassi is an ok return for a SS like Adames. They'd probably ask for a SS prospect too (Neto would be the ask, but maybe they settle on Paris?) and maybe they ask for half of Stassi's salary. I'd do that. 

I would not give up O'Hoppe or Ward or Sandoval for a player like Adames for 2 years.

Rengifo had a similar line with less power sure, but also less AB's and way less strike outs. Rengifo struck out 79 times in 511 plate appearances, compared to Adames 166 in 617. They had similar OBP and a 30 point edge in SLG pct. So why is Rengifo valued at 0.5 and Adames is 41.2?

Stassi had a much better line in 2021, but arguably so did Adames. 

 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Reference the Pads, and what to do with Tatis, isn't he suspended all next year anyway?

Eligible to return on April 20th.

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Reference the Pads, and what to do with Tatis, isn't he suspended all next year anyway?

He was suspended this year after missing a bunch of time due to injury. Tatis has twenty games left to serve.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Eligible to return on April 20th.

Damn. I thought he was out for the year for ringworm. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, Hubs said:

He was suspended this year after missing a bunch of time due to injury. Tatis has twenty games left to serve.

So his injury time counts as his suspension, basically?

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Damn. I thought he was out for the year for ringworm. 

From Bauer's chick?

[Hubs]

4 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So his injury time counts as his suspension, basically?

I think since he was rehabbing when he got suspended, they let him count every padres game as being suspended.

They didn't allow Rendon to serve his on game field suspension until he was healthy though so who knows why that is. 

[BTH]

35 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

who is "AngelsBaseballTalk" and do they have any form of credibility?