Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[Swordsman78]

https://www.si.com/mlb/angels/news/angels-rumors-four-potential-trade-targets-for-the-halos-according-to-mlb-insider

 

Interesting read.   Good to know there are 4 quality targets.  The question is what would the price (trade wise) be and who is expendable.

Angels have alot of good arms now.  Do they let one go for a quality SS?

 

[Angelsjunky]

How about Adell for Torres. Hoerner is younger, a better defender, and more club control, but Torres would probably be cheaper in trade cost. The trade simulator has Adell at a lowly 1.9, Torres at 4.6, and Hoerner at 33.9. Torres is 2nd year arbitration eligible and club-controlled through 2024, while Hoerner is 1st year and controlled through 2025.

Hoerner (26 in May, free agent in 2026): .281/.327/.410, 106 wRC+, 4.3 WAR (+14.3 Def).

Torres (26, free agent in 2025): .257/.310/.451, 115 wRC+, 2.7 WAR (-2.0 Def)

Meaning, Torres would likely be a good deal cheaper, but Hoerner is better - plus that defense. And just think, @Angel Oracle might be horny for Hoerner (if he's good).

 

[AngelsMetsWS]

I’d be happy running Glauber out there every day. 

[Chuck]

Would love an Adell and Soto for Hoerner trade. 

Sounds like the Cubs are the front runner for Dansby Swanson per recent reports. 

[Angelsjunky]

Torres or Hoerner make the lineup a lot deeper and/or opens the door to trade Rengifo for a pitching prospect or a good reliever.

 

[angelsnationtalk]

Cubs are looking to add help in rotation, shortstop, center field, 1B, bullpen and backup catcher. 

Not sure if we have what it takes to pry Hoerner away. If only Adell's value didn't fall off a cliff. Then again, he's young. Some teams might value him a bit more.

[Chuck]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Torres or Hoerner make the lineup a lot deeper and/or opens the door to trade Rengifo for a pitching prospect or a good reliever.

 

Agreed. But I wouldn't trade Rengifo unless Neto rakes in AA/AAA in 2023 and looks every bit ready for the big leagues. 

Going into the season with Rengifo/Fletcher/Soto for two positions is a good thing and improves the overall depth. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Agreed. But I wouldn't trade Rengifo unless Neto rakes in AA/AAA in 2023 and looks every bit ready for the big leagues. 

Going into the season with Rengifo/Fletcher/Soto for two positions is a good thing and improves the overall depth. 

I think this is such an important point. Compare that to Velazquez/Duffy/Wade. It's night and day.

[Warfarin]

37 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

How about Adell for Torres. Hoerner is younger, a better defender, and more club control, but Torres would probably be cheaper in trade cost. The trade simulator has Adell at a lowly 1.9, Torres at 4.6, and Hoerner at 33.9. Torres is 2nd year arbitration eligible and club-controlled through 2024, while Hoerner is 1st year and controlled through 2025.

Hoerner (26 in May, free agent in 2026): .281/.327/.410, 106 wRC+, 4.3 WAR (+14.3 Def).

Torres (26, free agent in 2025): .257/.310/.451, 115 wRC+, 2.7 WAR (-2.0 Def)

Meaning, Torres would likely be a good deal cheaper, but Hoerner is better - plus that defense. And just think, @Angel Oracle might be horny for Hoerner (if he's good).

 

We would have to give up a better trade asset than Adell for sure.  Adell basically has no trade value right now, or close to none.

BTV suggests that a Ky Bush for Torres trade would be "fair," although I don't think I'd do that personally.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

https://www.si.com/mlb/angels/news/angels-rumors-four-potential-trade-targets-for-the-halos-according-to-mlb-insider

 

Interesting read.   Good to know there are 4 quality targets.  The question is what would the price (trade wise) be and who is expendable.

Angels have alot of good arms now.  Do they let one go for a quality SS?

 

To be honest, I think Bowden is just spouting off names.  I'm not really sure how available any of those guys are.  If the Cubs are pursuing Swanson, as per reports, I would assume that means they are trying to make moves to contend, so why would they trade Hoerner in that circumstance?

[angelsnationtalk]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

To be honest, I think Bowden is just spouting off names.  I'm not really sure how available any of those guys are.  If the Cubs are pursuing Swanson, as per reports, I would assume that means they are trying to make moves to contend, so why would they trade Hoerner in that circumstance?

They don't have the pieces to contend this year. Maybe in a few. But yes, to your point, if they sign a top SS then they'd likely love the idea of say a Swanson/Hoerner up the middle. 

[Warfarin]

Just now, angelsnationtalk said:

They don't have the pieces to contend this year. Maybe in a few. But yes, to your point, if they sign a top SS then they'd likely love the idea of say a Swanson/Hoerner up the middle. 

Yeah, that's my thought - Hoerner shifts over to 2B, and Madrigal goes to the bench.  I am assuming that would be the intent of them acquiring Swanson.

[Pancake Bear]

7 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

To be honest, I think Bowden is just spouting off names.  I'm not really sure how available any of those guys are.  If the Cubs are pursuing Swanson, as per reports, I would assume that means they are trying to make moves to contend, so why would they trade Hoerner in that circumstance?

Bowden has connections, but that doesn't mean he's remotely reliable.

Top tier reporters are guys like Passan and Rosenthal. If they report something, it is all but certain. Morosi is pretty good also. After them, Heyman gets a lot of crap (deservedly so) as a Boras shill, because his rumors are usually things fed to him. Nightengale is an idiot, but he does sometimes get things right. Bowden is another level down from those guys, which makes it hard to know how much is him just making stuff up for clicks and how much is legit.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Bowden has connections, but that doesn't mean he's remotely reliable.

Top tier reporters are guys like Passan and Rosenthal. If they report something, it is all but certain. Morosi is pretty good also. After them, Heyman gets a lot of crap (deservedly so) as a Boras shill, because his rumors are usually things fed to him. Nightengale is an idiot, but he does sometimes get things right. Bowden is another level down from those guys, which makes it hard to know how much is him just making stuff up for clicks and how much is legit.

I basically just put stock into Passan and Rosenthal.  They are usually fairly silent until something is about to break, which I really appreciate.  The other guys just tend to say "hearing _____," which maybe they are, but most of the time it's just baseball rumors.  I only follow Passan and Rosenthal on Twitter (of the reporters) for that reason.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

How about Adell for Torres.

C’mon.

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Would love an Adell and Soto for Hoerner trade. 

C’mon x2.

 

Neither of those trade suggestions are anywhere close.

Adell has minuscule trade value, and the same goes for Soto. Torres is an above average 2B with two years of control.

[BTH]

People have gotta stop believing things from people who are just making stuff up.

(Not really targeted at anyone here, but at the person who wrote that SI article)

Bowden was clearly just spewing names, and the fact that he still listed OF as a need for the Angels and listed OF targets shows how poorly the list in that article was “vetted.”

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, that's my thought - Hoerner shifts over to 2B, and Madrigal goes to the bench.  I am assuming that would be the intent of them acquiring Swanson.

Goes to the bench or helps fetch another piece to give them depth elsewhere. 

[Warfarin]

30 minutes ago, Trendon said:

C’mon.

C’mon x2.

 

Neither of those trade suggestions are anywhere close.

Adell has minuscule trade value, and the same goes for Soto. Torres is an above average 2B with two years of control.

Admittedly, there is a trend for a lot of fans to think, "let's trade some of our downtrending or less valuable prospects for this great player on another team."  I think every fan base does it.  That's why I like BaseballTradeValues - it isn't perfect, and you can argue some of their ratings, but it is at least a good general barometer in terms of value.  Using that tool, you can see it would cost a Ky Bush to acquire Torres, not a Jo Adell or Livan Soto.  Or, alternatively, those guys would be complementary pieces, not the lynchpin of a deal.

[Taylor]

11 minutes ago, Trendon said:

C’mon.

C’mon x2.

 

Neither of those trade suggestions are anywhere close.

I see you're new to AngelsWin.

[Chuck]

51 minutes ago, Trendon said:

C’mon.

C’mon x2.

 

Neither of those trade suggestions are anywhere close.

Adell has minuscule trade value, and the same goes for Soto. Torres is an above average 2B with two years of control.

I probably should have prefaced that Adell/Soto are pieces in a deal for him but we’d probably have to give up someone like Ky Bush or Chase Silseth as well. 

In the years I’ve followed baseball there have been plenty of lopsided trades & favorable to one team deals, so while it would take possibly more to obtain the Cubs middle infielder most Angels fans on here & Twitter know more about Adell and Soto than like you and I our top prospects. 

[Chuck]

27 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Admittedly, there is a trend for a lot of fans to think, "let's trade some of our downtrending or less valuable prospects for this great player on another team."  I think every fan base does it.  That's why I like BaseballTradeValues - it isn't perfect, and you can argue some of their ratings, but it is at least a good general barometer in terms of value.  Using that tool, you can see it would cost a Ky Bush to acquire Torres, not a Jo Adell or Livan Soto.  Or, alternatively, those guys would be complementary pieces, not the lynchpin of a deal.

You start with Adell/Soto and when they reject or they counter, you end up giving up a Bush, Paris or Silseth. 
 

Honestly, I wouldn’t trade Silseth straight up for Hoerner. I think he’s going to be a very good #2 starter down the road. 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

People have gotta stop believing things from people who are just making stuff up.

(Not really targeted at anyone here, but at the person who wrote that SI article)

Bowden was clearly just spewing names, and the fact that he still listed OF as a need for the Angels and listed OF targets shows how poorly the list in that article was “vetted.”

Something as extensive as that, I'm sure he was working on the article earlier in the off-season and just didn't bother to change it. It's tough when the landscape changes on a daily basis. 

[Taylor]

33 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I probably should have prefaced that Adell/Soto are pieces in a deal for him but we’d probably have to give up someone like Ky Bush or Chase Silseth as well. 

In the years I’ve followed baseball there have been plenty of lopsided trades & favorable to one team deals, so while it would take possibly more to obtain the Cubs middle infielder most Angels fans on here & Twitter know more about Adell and Soto than like you and I our top prospects. 

I'm still waiting for one of those lopsided trades to benefit the Angels.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

Something as extensive as that, I'm sure he was working on the article earlier in the off-season and just didn't bother to change it. It's tough when the landscape changes on a daily basis. 

Probably, but isn’t that what editors are for?

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Admittedly, there is a trend for a lot of fans to think, "let's trade some of our downtrending or less valuable prospects for this great player on another team."  I think every fan base does it. 

That’s why I think it’s easier to evaluate trades, and trade value, from the outside.

If, say, the Diamondbacks and Blue Jays make a trade, I don’t have any bias influencing my opinion on the players one way or another like I would if the deal involved the Angels.