Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[angelsnationtalk]

The Angels' playoff hopes are kinda up in the air and I feel like their decision with SS with either put them isn a position to win, or will leave them out of contention if they don't.

Who can we assume are better teams than the Angels? 
Astros (AL West)
Yankees (AL East)
Rays
Blue Jays
Guardians (AL Central)
Mariners
MAYBE one of White Sox / Twins / Orioles

That's a tough ask for the Angels to compete against the Rays, Blue Jays and Mariners for a WC spot. 
Perry needs more. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Thats what i asked you to do... Tell me how your plan makes this team more than a wildcard contender. 
How does Bassit and Adames put us over the top?

I’d be fine with signing Bassitt and trading Sandoval for a SS, like Adames.  The difference between Adames and our current SS is greater than the difference between Sandoval and Bassitt. I’d rather keep Sandoval, but I also wouldn’t want to see us nickel and dime the next few years to fill holes, which is what will happen if we give $25 million to a SS.  Don’t get me wrong, I will take the $25 million SS, but I won’t be the least surprised if they don’t go that route.  Oh and the only thing that puts us over the top is health and playing well at the right time.  There isn’t a path to make us better on paper than Houston.  

[totdprods]

I’d have to think that between Suarez, Rengifo, Adell, and a SP or SS prospect, the Angels should be able to put together a decent package for a SS or SP. Sign one of those to make one of Rengifo/Suarez expendable, package the two for the other. Yeah we cut into our future depth, but it should be sustainable for once depending on who we acquire and how the current AA arms develop. 

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

... If some of our young minor leagues, such as Bush, Bachman, O'Hoppe, Neto, Dichiara, etc, develop well, or well enough, that would mitigate the need to pay these giant contracts to players.

All the way up until they become the giant contract players. The problem of being too successful in player development is paying for that. So if the Angels make a couple of long term commitments to players past half way through their career performance levels now, they will have to watch their own talent walk when free agents because the budget is already wiped out by 35 year old guys with half their production. 

 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I’d be fine with signing Bassitt and trading Sandoval for a SS, like Adames.  The difference between Adames and our current SS is greater than the difference between Sandoval and Bassitt. I’d rather keep Sandoval, but I also wouldn’t want to see us nickel and dime the next few years to fill holes, which is what will happen if we give $25 million to a SS.  Don’t get me wrong, I will take the $25 million SS, but I won’t be the least surprised if they don’t go that route.  Oh and the only thing that puts us over the top is health and playing well at the right time.  There isn’t a path to make us better on paper than Houston.  

Why is it assumed that if we make a big move we have to nickle and dime elsewhere... thats where we differ. 
We put ourselves in this place with past contracts, if we did that al the while knowing we had some limitations then we were stupid as hades. 

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

Why is it assumed that if we make a big move we have to nickle and dime elsewhere... thats where we differ. 
We put ourselves in this place with past contracts, if we did that al the while knowing we had some limitations then we were stupid as hades. 

Common sense. Because we will have spent $175 million on the first 8 players. So we have 18 more players to sign.  That doesn’t include that soon Sandoval and Ward will take another $20 million of that.  

[floplag]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Common sense. Because we will have spent $175 million on the first 8 players. So we have 18 more players to sign.  That doesn’t include that soon Sandoval and Ward will take another $20 million of that.  

Then we should not have spent what we did on those 8 players if we didnt have the capacity to go beyond.

[angelsnationtalk]

IF the Angels do intend on going past the tax of $233M then I'd imagine they can bump it all the way up around $250M. And if they did then they'd pay a tax of $3.4M.

Just randomly thinking that they could spend up to $252M. There's an additional surcharge of 20% of you spend $20M over the base tax. Which puts them at $152M or less to spend before the surcharge. 

Not saying they will spend that much, but if they did open it up a bit then i'd imagine there's still a hard ceiling (aside from what they agree on internally).

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

Then we should not have spent what we did on those 8 players if we didnt have the capacity to go beyond.

Ok.  One of those 8 is the SS you want, another one is Shohei, who isn’t signed yet.

[Warfarin]

9 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

IF the Angels do intend on going past the tax of $233M then I'd imagine they can bump it all the way up around $250M. And if they did then they'd pay a tax of $3.4M.

Just randomly thinking that they could spend up to $252M. There's an additional surcharge of 20% of you spend $20M over the base tax. Which puts them at $152M or less to spend before the surcharge. 

Not saying they will spend that much, but if they did open it up a bit then i'd imagine there's still a hard ceiling (aside from what they agree on internally).

Yeah.  I think the general thinking is if you are going to go above the LT limit, you might as well blow past it for that year, because the taxes are not that great and it doesn't really make much sense to barely go above.

The key part, though, is most organizations seem to want to have a path to go back down after a few years or so.  

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

All the way up until they become the giant contract players. The problem of being too successful in player development is paying for that. So if the Angels make a couple of long term commitments to players past half way through their career performance levels now, they will have to watch their own talent walk when free agents because the budget is already wiped out by 35 year old guys with half their production. 

 

Yeah, so I think that somewhat highlights how important it is to have a continuous pipeline of talent.  Tough decisions will ultimately have to be made, and that is why you see various organizations allow some of their key contributors to depart - they simply can't keep them all, so they have to pick and choose.  It looks like Swanson, who has been a key contributor to the Braves, will be leaving, but they have a strong core and can endure that.

We would have to do the same in the above theoretical example - maybe that means allowing Sandoval to leave down the line, or Ward, or Detmers, etc.  But we'd have to have good, young talent in position to take over for them.

[jsnpritchett]

 

[Angels 1961]

How much will former White Sox SS cost. Elvis Andrus

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

How much will former White Sox SS cost. Elvis Andrus

Jump off that wagon. He is not that good anymore. Especially defensively. He is basically a 2nd baseman now. I would rather use Soto at ss, if need be.

[Stradling]

Just now, greginpsca said:

Jump off that wagon. He is not that good anymore. Especially defensively. He is basically a 2nd baseman now. I would rather use Soto at ss, if need be.

No. If we have to choose between Andrus or Soto it’s Andrus. 

[Angels 1961]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No. If we have to choose between Andrus or Soto it’s Andrus. 

So how much do u think he would cost. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

So how much do u think he would cost. 

$9-11 million is my guess. 

[Taylor]

57 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

So how much do u think he would cost. 

[Pancake Bear]

Some people are way too enamored with Soto. Obviously it's better when you hit in the majors than when you don't, but he has a .500 BABIP in his 59 PA's. The highest BABIP among qualified hitters last season was .368 - Paul Goldschmidt. Soto's best BABIP in the minors was .345 in 2022, and even that was well over his career norms. It's not impossible he could be good in the majors, but there's been way too much emphasis on a really small sample size. 

[Swordsman78]

Could be worse......

[Deek]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:27 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Torres or Hoerner make the lineup a lot deeper and/or opens the door to trade Rengifo for a pitching prospect or a good reliever.

 

I don't understand all of the enthusiasm and interest in moving Rengifo... What I saw from him last year - I want to keep in our lineup for a long time...

[Angels 1961]

20 minutes ago, Deek said:

I don't understand all of the enthusiasm and interest in moving Rengifo... What I saw from him last year - I want to keep in our lineup for a long time...

I agree Rengifo cheap you need to add someone to play alongside him

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

$9-11 million is my guess. 

How about Jean Segura

[floplag]

19 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok.  One of those 8 is the SS you want, another one is Shohei, who isn’t signed yet.

And?  It doesnt change the point.  If we cant afford them then we cant afford them, its that simple.   We either can, or cant, go beyond the comfortable level.  Who they are doenst matter really does it? 
Youre playing both sides here arguing your own point. 

[totdprods]

Andrus was fine when he got out of Oakland. Change of scenery from there did him good.

I wouldn’t be thrilled, but if they signed him for 1/$10m or less and it didn’t prevent other upgrades in the pen or bench, I wouldn’t be too put off. Same goes for Jose Iglesias even. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by totdprods