Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[ettin]

I've always had a liking for Adames and I think his two years of remaining control fit a Neto call up in 2024 and then full-time in 2025. If the Angels believe Neto is their future at SS, then finding the right bridge player to cover the next two years or so, makes a lot of sense.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

I've always had a liking for Adames and I think his two years of remaining control fit a Neto call up in 2024 and then full-time in 2025. If the Angels believe Neto is their future at SS, then finding the right bridge player to cover the next two years or so, makes a lot of sense.

Us handing out huge money for an SS would be silly, if Neto is the future. 

 

(But is he? Is he Adell?...)

 

That said, I think the best idea is to sign one of these bona-fide SSs (sounds like a snake) who are about the best bats available right now anyway (which we desperately need), and it allows us to take our time with Neto, eventually bump Rendon to 1B when the time comes, and still gives us another big bat in case Ohtani walks.

[Angels 1961]

I have heard of meetings with all top SS with many teams. Never mentioned Angels in any of them.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

I have heard of meetings with all top SS with many teams. Never mentioned Angels in any of them.

That's how it's always been. 

I don't think we're serious suitors for any of these guys, but I also wouldn't be entirely shocked if they just came out of nowhere and signed Correa.

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Us handing out huge money for an SS would be silly, if Neto is the future. 

 

(But is he? Is he Adell?...)

 

That said, I think the best idea is to sign one of these bona-fide SSs (sounds like a snake) who are about the best bats available right now anyway (which we desperately need), and it allows us to take our time with Neto, eventually bump Rendon to 1B when the time comes, and still gives us another big bat in case Ohtani walks.

Well - assuming those guys all get 6+ year deals, then I think that instead means Neto would be traded elsewhere.  Which, while a possibility, just wouldn't seem to make much sense for the FO.  If the FO knew it wanted one of the top 4 SSs, I suspect they would not have drafted Neto to begin with, and instead pursued another position to improve.  It would just seem to be an odd organizational plan to spend your top pick on an almost-ready SS, then go out and sign a star SS to a 6+ year contract instead.

As for your top point - I understand a lot of fans don't have much faith in the ability of the FO to develop talent, and there is always the fear of another Dallas McPherson, Brandon Wood, or Jo Adell, but I'd say give this FO a chance and let's see how they do in terms of developing talent.  Minasian's draft and development team/process likely is fairly different than Eppler's, whose was fairly different than Dipoto's, and so on.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

don't have much faith in the ability of the FO to develop talent, and there is always the fear of another Dallas McPherson,

Please explain in detail how the front office should have “developed” McPherson’s talent in a way where his back doesn’t fall apart on him.

He was developed just fine.  His body failed him.

I won’t argue that the Angels FO doesn’t have problems.  But the McPherson reference is an example of huge disappointment that has nothing to do with developing talent.

 

[floplag]

None of these options are bad, obviously, although im not wild about Torres defensively and i think we need someone with a better glove up the middle for our young arms... but for me these are not difference makers. 
None of these guys put us over the top or in the mix for the playoffs in my view.
Its the kind of move you make to tread water, not the kind that you make to take the next step.
Better than what we have, sure, enough to put us into the conversation, to convince Ohtani to extend, no. 
If this is what we do we should be shopping him, now. 

[Warfarin]

36 minutes ago, floplag said:

None of these options are bad, obviously, although im not wild about Torres defensively and i think we need someone with a better glove up the middle for our young arms... but for me these are not difference makers. 
None of these guys put us over the top or in the mix for the playoffs in my view.
Its the kind of move you make to tread water, not the kind that you make to take the next step.
Better than what we have, sure, enough to put us into the conversation, to convince Ohtani to extend, no. 
If this is what we do we should be shopping him, now. 

Torres and Hoerner are both pretty solid options, especially Hoerner, who likely is unavailable via trade.

While I hear what you are saying, people seem to conflate large free agent contracts with success.  The Rays, Guardians, Brewers, and various versions of Beane's A's have all shown that a winning team can be formed without this.  

Raising the floor, by replacing Velazquez and people like him with a solid but unspectacular player, is how teams are able to help improve considerably at a reasonable cost.  This is what we need to do, as we already have 3 players earning 30+ mil for the year.

[Stradling]

40 minutes ago, floplag said:

None of these options are bad, obviously, although im not wild about Torres defensively and i think we need someone with a better glove up the middle for our young arms... but for me these are not difference makers. 
None of these guys put us over the top or in the mix for the playoffs in my view.
Its the kind of move you make to tread water, not the kind that you make to take the next step.
Better than what we have, sure, enough to put us into the conversation, to convince Ohtani to extend, no. 
If this is what we do we should be shopping him, now. 

Torres and some pen help puts us in playoff contention 

[Stradling]

We had an injury riddled year last year. We’ve added Anderson, who was great last year.  We’ve replaced -5 WAR group of players with two 3 WAR players. Then adding a 4 WAR Torres. Yes these moves move the needle. 

[Angel Oracle]

14 hours ago, Taylor said:

I'm still waiting for one of those lopsided trades to benefit the Angels.

Bartee for Figgins

[Angel Oracle]

27 minutes ago, Stradling said:

We had an injury riddled year last year. We’ve added Anderson, who was great last year.  We’ve replaced -5 WAR group of players with two 3 WAR players. Then adding a 4 WAR Torres. Yes these moves move the needle. 

Only downside is Torres’ meh defense in 2019-2021, although he finally had a positive dWAR in 2022 (1.4).

Note: His only two positive dWAR seasons came while playing mainly 2B.  Can Rengifo play decent enough SS?  Because with someone else at 2B, Rengifo >> Fletcher.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[HanfordGuy]

We sign Carlos Correa but only ever refer to him as “Rocket Man” for being a ‘Stro.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Please explain in detail how the front office should have “developed” McPherson’s talent in a way where his back doesn’t fall apart on him.

He was developed just fine.  His body failed him.

I won’t argue that the Angels FO doesn’t have problems.  But the McPherson reference is an example of huge disappointment that has nothing to do with developing talent.

 

Try not to spit out your coffee but I agree with you. 

[bruin5]

I would be happy just standing pat at SS. The combo of Fletcher/Soto is definitely serviceable and will provide a WAR increase over last year. However, I look at them both as placeholders because I can see Neto being called up next year. I think he has the ability and the mental make up to help the Angels next year. I don’t want us to trade pitching for a one or two year guy. We need that depth in the minors because you know we will need to tap into it at some point. 

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Only downside is Torres’ meh defense in 2019-2021, although he finally had a positive dWAR in 2022 (1.4).

Note: His only two positive dWAR seasons came while playing mainly 2B.  Can Rengifo play decent enough SS?  Because with someone else at 2B, Rengifo >> Fletcher.

 

Gleyber Torres was moved to 2b because he is not  good at ss. Kiner Falefa is a better ss.

[Swordsman78]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

We had an injury riddled year last year. We’ve added Anderson, who was great last year.  We’ve replaced -5 WAR group of players with two 3 WAR players. Then adding a 4 WAR Torres. Yes these moves move the needle. 

Nice to be reading positive takes this morning. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Nice to be reading positive takes this morning. 

Thanks Shill

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Please explain in detail how the front office should have “developed” McPherson’s talent in a way where his back doesn’t fall apart on him.

He was developed just fine.  His body failed him.

I won’t argue that the Angels FO doesn’t have problems.  But the McPherson reference is an example of huge disappointment that has nothing to do with developing talent.

 

McPherson was a failed prospect, it doesn't really matter why. Neto isn't some how shielded from that outcome. People are talking about him like he is a sure thing, just like they talked about the three players referenced.

[DMVol]

58 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Gleyber Torres was moved to 2b because he is not  good at ss. Kiner Falefa is a better ss.

Have thought all along that he is the best option for us…considering his skill set, cost for acquiring….

[Docwaukee]

I'm just not sure why the Yankees would trade Torres unless they got a haul or probably more likely, they would want a solid starter in return.  

If we were to give up someone like Suarez, I would want more in return like a solid reliever.  Some may disagree.  

And I would only do this if we went out and got another starter to replace Suarez.  I'm not sure that matchup works.  

Kiner Falefa seems like an obvious choice and should cost very little.  

[Docwaukee]

Of the top 4 SS's available, I think I'd go with the cheapest option although I'm a little concerned about Swanson's bat long term.  So I'd probably go with Bogaerts .  Turner and Correa are better but I get the sense that the cost difference for those two will be substantial.  

[Angels 1961]

Between Andrus and Aledmys Diaz I'm leaning towards Velaquez

[tdawg87]

Kiner Falefa sounds like a rapper.

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

McPherson was a failed prospect, it doesn't really matter why. Neto isn't some how shielded from that outcome. People are talking about him like he is a sure thing, just like they talked about the three players referenced.

I think people are hopeful that he is a sure thing, but he is most definitely not at this point.  I think, though, it is clear the FO intends for him to be our future SS, given his high drafted position and how quickly they have moved him.  It is somewhat similar to seeing a football team draft a QB with their first pick - they are essentially pinning their future hopes to that player's success.  Obviously this is not nearly as dramatic, because a failed top MLB draft pick is not nearly as dramatic as a failed top QB draft pick, but I think it does reveal the direction of the FO and what it is hoping to see.