The Angels Organization is Going Nowhere but Down

[stormngt]

38 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

At minimum Arte has been terrible at hiring GMs or firing them too quickly. 

I do believe Eppler should have been extended.

 

[Angel Oracle]

The focus going forward should be on:

Determining if Fletcher can’t play every day anymore, and if not then trading for a stop gap competent SS like Kyle Farmer in the off-season

Calling up guys like Bush and Erla to see what they can do as starters

Calling up guys like Murphy, Torres, and Crow to see what they can do at the MLB level, and based on that seeing what relievers need to be brought in, but no more bigger money guys like Loup and Tepera 

Converting Silseth to the pen now

Stabilizing manager and coaching staff in the off-season

Signing Ohtani

As AJ pointed out, signing other teams’ big money FAs has never worked in the 2010s/2020s.

No more big money FAs signed from other teams, especially if already age 30 starting the first season!

See if Neto is the SS solution in the next couple of years.

Between Rengifo and Jackson, someone will handle 2B ultimately.

DiChiara could potentially be the guy to split 1B with Walsh and allow Ohtani to take some more games off from DHing vs LHPs.

Ward will be fine in RF.

Move Trout to LF.

Let Adell and Marsh share CF.  It’s their best position.

Rendon and Trout better be healthy for a change in 2023.

Warning on Sandoval, that WHIP is pretty high for a #2 starter.  Needs to cut that and his pitch counts down, if he is to be a upper rotation guy going forward.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[BTH]

6 hours ago, stormngt said:

Is it confirmed that Arte insisted on the Rendon signing or is that speculation?

Is it confirmed about the Pujols signing?  Or speculation.  

I have never seen any confirmation of it.

BTW is Joc or Ward better in the long haul?

It’s confirmed that Arte went to Boras directly and told him he wanted Rendon. There’s an Athletic article about it.

From that article:

“But as the Sunday meeting, the last before baseball’s annual Winter Meetings, came to a close, Moreno asked that the room be cleared out for just him and Boras.

He made one thing clear: He had his eyes on Rendon, the All-Star third baseman fresh off a World Series title with the Washington Nationals.”

 

I honestly don’t know for sure about Pujols, but he had to sign off on it at least.

The Angels had no idea Ward would be this good. Also, the Angels might make the playoffs in 2020 with Joc/Stripling on the team.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Is this supposed to be some kind of revelation?

No, but it’s important that the owner gets his deserved blame when the rest of the team gets their deserves blame.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think the last two major moves Arte made were signing Rendon and firing Ausmus to hire Maddon. I think since he hired Perry, he's allowed him to make the decisions. I actually believe this is why he hasn't done any interview/pressers since after the 2020 season--he wants to make it clear he's out of the way and this is Perry's team. 

Interesting theory, but I’m not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe you’re right, but we don’t know.

[Stradling]

16 hours ago, ukyah said:

what do you think is wrong with this franchise? not a loaded question. do you believe there is something systemic or ?

bad luck? 

is carpino a factor? is arte?

nothing is wrong with the franchise? 

I believe it’s poor drafting from years ago, zero guys from the farm outside of the first two rounds are making it to the majors.  We’ve had zero guys Internationally get signed, developed and be everyday contributors (excluding Ohtani).  Poor pitching development, leads to expensive free agency to fill every hole (not gross).  And since Scioscia left we have zero identity. Oh and turnover of leadership, which causes turnover of philosophy.  But here’s the thing, since it takes YEARS to develop a farm, we have no idea if Perry is any good or not. It’s easy to see now that Dipoto damaged the team, but in the moment no one knew it would have this long of an impact. I believe we have an impulsive owner, who treats the minor leaguers poorly.  But I have no idea and there’s been no indication that he still meddles.  He gets too much of the blame and it’s lazy to say “it starts at the top” especially in years when virtually none of the one year options work out.  But GMs on other teams find those one year deals that work out. 

[beatlesrule]

19 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Four managers in the last five seasons, and pretty soon five in six seasons.

2018: Scioscia

2019: Ausmus

2020-22: Maddon

2022: Nevin

2023: ?

You mean he was wrong? I'm shocked.

[Stradling]

53 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

You mean he was wrong? I'm shocked.

Context is important. The conversation was present tense.  They’ve had three managers and an interim manager.  Sorry you aren’t capable of understanding nuance.  

[Dtwncbad]

It’s pretty easy at this point to paint Arte as the bad guy and direct all our frustration at him, and be all adamant that he has to go and so on.

But if I am honest with myself, there were certainly times I felt fortunate to have Arte as the owner.  There are always always some owners out there that are complete disasters compared to Arte.

The team has now suffered some significant issues related to the owner.  He is accountable for those things.

But it also seems that there is some real evidence that he has learned from some of his mistakes also.

I am going to be the full spectrum fan on the Arte subject.  I liked him overall for a long time.  I have been acutely annoyed with him on many things.  I think he has learned from some of his mistakes.  And I have some remaining optimism that he can be the owner of a contender.

Basically it’s (generically) like lots of real marriages with real histories.

Would I welcome a new owner?  Tough question because you can ALWAYS do worse.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[stormngt]

17 hours ago, Trendon said:

It’s confirmed that Arte went to Boras directly and told him he wanted Rendon. There’s an Athletic article about it.

From that article:

“But as the Sunday meeting, the last before baseball’s annual Winter Meetings, came to a close, Moreno asked that the room be cleared out for just him and Boras.

He made one thing clear: He had his eyes on Rendon, the All-Star third baseman fresh off a World Series title with the Washington Nationals.”

 

I honestly don’t know for sure about Pujols, but he had to sign off on it at least.

The Angels had no idea Ward would be this good. Also, the Angels might make the playoffs in 2020 with Joc/Stripling on the team.

With Trout hurt?

No they don't make the playoffs in 2020.

And not knowing how good Ward was in 2019 has no bearing on if it was better having Ward now or Peterson in 2020.

 

[BTH]

15 minutes ago, stormngt said:

With Trout hurt?

No they don't make the playoffs in 2020.

And not knowing how good Ward was in 2019 has no bearing on if it was better having Ward now or Peterson in 2020.

 

Trout played in 53/60 games in 2020.

And they finished 3 games out of a playoff spot in 2020. Having Stripling/Pederson in 2020 could’ve made the difference.

[stormngt]

12 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Trout played in 53/60 games in 2020.

And they finished 3 games out of a playoff spot in 2020. Having Stripling/Pederson in 2020 could’ve made the difference.

Sorry I mistakenly thinking about 2022.

Still not sure they make the playoffs in 2020.   Ohtani had his worst season at the plate.

Edited July 24, 2022 by stormngt

[khouse]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:30 PM, Angel Oracle said:

The focus going forward should be on:

Determining if Fletcher can’t play every day anymore, and if not then trading for a stop gap competent SS like Kyle Farmer in the off-season

 

Before I suggest what I think they should do a SS...I believe that most are forgetting Carpino's comments right after Eppler was fired. As he stated his belief that something was not right within the organization & expressed a desire to examine things to find our why, for the last several years, they have been unable to reach the post-season. So, to me, I took this this to mean that whoever they hired as GM, that they were willing to take a different approach with the new hire. That, when word came that Minasian was also going to be able to hire a staff , that Eppler (& maybe Dipoto et al) never had, made me think that they were, indeed (and finally) going leave the team decisions to the new GM. Which, did fit with an owner whose focus, at the was on the stadium stuff that, at the time, was all but a done deal until, of course, it wasn't. But, perhaps it was why Arte agreed to take this new approach, & maybe why he hasn't spoken to the media about the team. Which, if true, leads me to have some concerns given that Perry & company are now in their 2nd year...

1. Why has "Minasian & staff" only produced Raisel & Lorenzen in 2 years thus far? Also, how can a 'competent" team explain the other Iglesias (Jose) trade (that cost us 2 pitching prospects for a player now with the Rockies), resigning Lagares (who took his "talent" after his release to Korea) & the signings of Wade, Velasquez & Duffy? I mean, given their shared experiences...are these the type of signings anyone expected this GM/staff to make & what, exactly, did they expect such players to contribute? Is it not reasonable to expect that a staff who, reportedly, took an extensive look at the farm, to have not made more "savvy" moves by now to identify/fill holes that Eppler did (without a staff) albeit in his 3rd year (Sandoval) & his 4th year (Stassi)? 

2. How long is Moreno willing to give this "experiment" a chance & should we as fans not be somewhat concerned that Minasian might be f'n up whatever "window" Arte may have in mind to see results? I mean...especially considering that Perry has already asked for a "mulligan" this season, admitting that he/his staff should have done more with the roster. I'm sorry but rather than look to the owner/fans that you got caught "unaware" might it not have been a smarter approach to, maybe, say that because of some development issues (that you & your staff are looking to correct) the approach changed to signing "bridge" players because some of the team's minor leaguers haven't progressed as quickly as they thought they would? I mean...if he would have said that, it would have, at least, looked like he had a plan initially & very astute to, rightly, be looking to the farm for help & to improve the development there. 

So, just some questions that I've had that have made me wonder about the Angels & their direction. As for the SS spot...that I alluded to earlier...currently the St. Louis Cardinals are wondering what to do with Paul DeJong who has flashed some talent but needs to be an everyday SS. He's currently in AAA, is very close to being out of options & has about 2 years remaining on a hefty contract. Which, obviously, he isn't worth at this point given that in over 4 years he hasn't put it all together. But, with their having to make a decision on him soon, when he is DFA'd/released he would present a low-cost option for the Angels to consider this year.

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2022/6/13/23165484/what-to-do-about-paul-dejong

[ukyah]

14 hours ago, Stradling said:

I believe it’s poor drafting from years ago, zero guys from the farm outside of the first two rounds are making it to the majors.  We’ve had zero guys Internationally get signed, developed and be everyday contributors (excluding Ohtani).  Poor pitching development, leads to expensive free agency to fill every hole (not gross).  And since Scioscia left we have zero identity. Oh and turnover of leadership, which causes turnover of philosophy.  But here’s the thing, since it takes YEARS to develop a farm, we have no idea if Perry is any good or not. It’s easy to see now that Dipoto damaged the team, but in the moment no one knew it would have this long of an impact. I believe we have an impulsive owner, who treats the minor leaguers poorly.  But I have no idea and there’s been no indication that he still meddles.  He gets too much of the blame and it’s lazy to say “it starts at the top” especially in years when virtually none of the one year options work out.  But GMs on other teams find those one year deals that work out. 

i appreciate that. i can't blame perry right now either. his two drafts seem to be pretty good and at the very least competent and understandable in his goals. what do you think of carpino and his responsibility or lack there of? would you like to see him replaced on the baseball operations side?

i agree with your basic opinions, but i do disagree on your position of arte's and likely carpino's responsibility on the state of the franchise. i don't think either one of them have shown any acumen to run a sports franchise. 

[Stradling]

38 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i appreciate that. i can't blame perry right now either. his two drafts seem to be pretty good and at the very least competent and understandable in his goals. what do you think of carpino and his responsibility or lack there of? would you like to see him replaced on the baseball operations side?

i agree with your basic opinions, but i do disagree on your position of arte's and likely carpino's responsibility on the state of the franchise. i don't think either one of them have shown any acumen to run a sports franchise. 

I’d like to see Carpino replaced.  Although selfishly I don’t want that since I recently was a guest of his in some amazing seats. 

[robblin17]

2 hours ago, khouse said:

Before I suggest what I think they should do a SS...I believe that most are forgetting Carpino's comments right after Eppler was fired. As he stated his belief that something was not right within the organization & expressed a desire to examine things to find our why, for the last several years, they have been unable to reach the post-season. So, to me, I took this this to mean that whoever they hired as GM, that they were willing to take a different approach with the new hire. That, when word came that Minasian was also going to be able to hire a staff , that Eppler (& maybe Dipoto et al) never had, made me think that they were, indeed (and finally) going leave the team decisions to the new GM. Which, did fit with an owner whose focus, at the was on the stadium stuff that, at the time, was all but a done deal until, of course, it wasn't. But, perhaps it was why Arte agreed to take this new approach, & maybe why he hasn't spoken to the media about the team. Which, if true, leads me to have some concerns given that Perry & company are now in their 2nd year...

1. Why has "Minasian & staff" only produced Raisel & Lorenzen in 2 years thus far? Also, how can a 'competent" team explain the other Iglesias (Jose) trade (that cost us 2 pitching prospects for a player now with the Rockies), resigning Lagares (who took his "talent" after his release to Korea) & the signings of Wade, Velasquez & Duffy? I mean, given their shared experiences...are these the type of signings anyone expected this GM/staff to make & what, exactly, did they expect such players to contribute? Is it not reasonable to expect that a staff who, reportedly, took an extensive look at the farm, to have not made more "savvy" moves by now to identify/fill holes that Eppler did (without a staff) albeit in his 3rd year (Sandoval) & his 4th year (Stassi)? 

2. How long is Moreno willing to give this "experiment" a chance & should we as fans not be somewhat concerned that Minasian might be f'n up whatever "window" Arte may have in mind to see results? I mean...especially considering that Perry has already asked for a "mulligan" this season, admitting that he/his staff should have done more with the roster. I'm sorry but rather than look to the owner/fans that you got caught "unaware" might it not have been a smarter approach to, maybe, say that because of some development issues (that you & your staff are looking to correct) the approach changed to signing "bridge" players because some of the team's minor leaguers haven't progressed as quickly as they thought they would? I mean...if he would have said that, it would have, at least, looked like he had a plan initially & very astute to, rightly, be looking to the farm for help & to improve the development there. 

So, just some questions that I've had that have made me wonder about the Angels & their direction. As for the SS spot...that I alluded to earlier...currently the St. Louis Cardinals are wondering what to do with Paul DeJong who has flashed some talent but needs to be an everyday SS. He's currently in AAA, is very close to being out of options & has about 2 years remaining on a hefty contract. Which, obviously, he isn't worth at this point given that in over 4 years he hasn't put it all together. But, with their having to make a decision on him soon, when he is DFA'd/released he would present a low-cost option for the Angels to consider this year.

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2022/6/13/23165484/what-to-do-about-paul-dejong

The Angels should hire the guy that wrote that article. 

[robblin17]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’d like to see Carpino replaced.  Although selfishly I don’t want that since I recently was a guest of his in some amazing seats. 

Curious why you’d like to see him get replaced? 

[BILLYMACREXANDGUBI]

This forum shouldn't be called AngelsWin.

I would call it AngelsDoom.

I look at the glass half full. The Angels have two of the most attractive players in the league and should be (they are) looking to add on this squad not get rid of Trout and Ohtani.

Are you guys smoking peyote or what? 'Cause I just don't see the whole trading Trout and Ohtani as saving the Angels franchise. It will only diminish it.

They need more talent and a manager who can light a fire under this clubhouse.

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, BILLYMACREXANDGUBI said:

This forum shouldn't be called AngelsWin.

I would call it AngelsDoom.

I look at the glass half full. The Angels have two of the most attractive players in the league and should be (they are) looking to add on this squad not get rid of Trout and Ohtani.

Are you guys smoking peyote or what? 'Cause I just don't see the whole trading Trout and Ohtani as saving the Angels franchise. It will only diminish it.

They need more talent and a manager who can light a fire under this clubhouse.

We know what they need. It’s the execution of getting what they need. 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Curious why you’d like to see him get replaced? 

He’s not a baseball guy. 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, BILLYMACREXANDGUBI said:

This forum shouldn't be called AngelsWin.

I would call it AngelsDoom.

I look at the glass half full. The Angels have two of the most attractive players in the league and should be (they are) looking to add on this squad not get rid of Trout and Ohtani.

Are you guys smoking peyote or what? 'Cause I just don't see the whole trading Trout and Ohtani as saving the Angels franchise. It will only diminish it.

They need more talent and a manager who can light a fire under this clubhouse.

Hey bud, as one of the more positive people here I’ll just say this place may not be the place for you. We here know we are the most complete Angel fan site on the internet, but if you want it to be just positive, well you joined at the wrong time. 

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

He’s not a baseball guy. 

That’s a great reason. The Angels need a John Mozeliak. 

[robblin17]

Just now, Stradling said:

Hey bud, as one of the more positive people here I’ll just say this place may not be the place for you. We here know we are the most complete Angel fan site on the internet, but if you want it to be just positive, well you joined at the wrong time. 

I do love the screen name though. It fits. 

[BTH]

29 minutes ago, BILLYMACREXANDGUBI said:

They need more talent and a manager who can light a fire under this clubhouse.

Just curious… who do you think is a manager that can light a fire under this clubhouse?

[BTH]

2 hours ago, khouse said:

I believe that most are forgetting Carpino's comments right after Eppler was fired.
But, perhaps it was why Arte agreed to take this new approach, & maybe why he hasn't spoken to the media about the team. Which, if true, leads me to have some concerns given that Perry & company are now in their 2nd year...

I think you are forgetting that Carpino also said this: