The Angels Organization is Going Nowhere but Down

[cals]

I remember when @Stradling would defend Arte when @yk9001 would talk shit in him and the beer baron Kuhl.

[AngelsFaninGA]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Just so we’re clear it always starts with the owner, this isn’t unique to Arte.  
Why do you do this to yourselves?  Like seriously why?  

 

Because it's fun. We're all having so much fun right now aren't we?

[Second Base]

I understand fans are upset, but I also think there's a drastic misunderstanding of the role and owner actually plays. Arte played a more active role a decade ago and even influenced some decisions three years ago. But since, he's hired a GM that has undergone the process of getting rid of what we as fans perceive to be "Arte's guys" and has remade the farm system in the image he believes will produce meaningful players.

A big part of the reshaping of the farm, and less money allocated toward scouts is due to technology. We have a GM who understands that with tracking technology at every field, he doesn't need to spend to fly scouts here and there and be at every game. Just look at what @Blargsaid regarding AFL games, there used to be a lot of scouts at the games, but not anymore. 

At this point, Arte is simply the money. Now because he's the money he does have a degree of influence, but the recent decisions strongly suggest that Minasian is the final word regarding personnel. 

So you can be pissed at Arte all you want, but it's going to be misdirected. 

[robblin17]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Three managers in the last 23 years. 

Wrong. Scioscia, Ausmus, Maddon, Nevin, ???

[Stradling]

31 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Wrong. Scioscia, Ausmus, Maddon, Nevin, ???

Interim 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Stradling said:

Interim 

Which means it will be 5 managers next year.

I win. 

[HanfordGuy]

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Which means it will be 5 managers next year.

I win. 

4

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Three managers in the last 23 years. 

Four managers in the last five seasons, and pretty soon five in six seasons.

2018: Scioscia

2019: Ausmus

2020-22: Maddon

2022: Nevin

2023: ?

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

4

I'm counting Nevin. 

But even if we don't count Nevin (Kevin), that's 4 managers and 4 GM's in 12 years.

[ukyah]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Arte is hiring the GMs Arte hired Maddon, and Arte allowed Perry to fire Maddon, Arte’s hand picked guy. I have no idea if Minasian is the guy but he’s put together the best front office we’ve had in a very long time. 

what do you think is wrong with this franchise? not a loaded question. do you believe there is something systemic or ?

bad luck? 

is carpino a factor? is arte?

nothing is wrong with the franchise? 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Trendon said:

and it all starts at the top, with Arte Moreno as owner.

There’s a reason why the Angels development has been awful, and it starts with Arte Moreno.

There’s a reason why the Angels have made horrible free agent signings, and it starts with Arte Moreno.

There’s a reason why the Angels keep hiring first-time GM’s who can be puppets, and it starts with Arte Moreno.

There’s a reason why the Angels have had instability in managerial positions, and it starts with Arte Moreno.

 

Jeff Fletcher will always be quick to point out that we don’t know how much the Angels spend on player development, scouts, front office personnel, et al.

But here’s what we do know:

- The Angels have consistently had issues paying/taking care of their minor leaguers.

- The Angels keep cycling through GMs and Managers with no stability.

- Arte Moreno has interfered with Baseball Operations (such as forcing the Rendon signing, nixing the Joc trade, forcing the Wells trade, and Pujols signing).

- The Angels have failed to consistently develop players outside of unicorns like Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani.

 

Until Arte Moreno changes his ways or sells the team, this team isn’t improving. Maybe they luck into 1 postseason appearance, but that’ll be it. He rode the coattails of what Bill Stoneman built at the beginning of his ownership, and it’s been a disaster ever since then besides lucking into 1 playoff appearance in 13 years.

Is it confirmed that Arte insisted on the Rendon signing or is that speculation?

Is it confirmed about the Pujols signing?  Or speculation.  

I have never seen any confirmation of it.

BTW is Joc or Ward better in the long haul?

[Angels 1961]

I do believe Oakland will catch halos in standings, but we hold off Nationals for worse record.

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, cals said:

I remember when @Stradling would defend Arte when @yk9001 would talk shit in him and the beer baron Kuhl.

It was me against practically the whole frigging board.

Well, its nice that the name got changed to LA so everyone from here to New Zealand knows how lousy a franchise it is.

[Angels 1961]

30 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Four managers in the last five seasons, and pretty soon five in six seasons.

2018: Scioscia

2019: Ausmus

2020-22: Maddon

2022: Nevin

2023: ?

Pujols player manager

[T.G.]

54 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

 

I'm counting Nevin

Me too.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm counting Nevin. 

But even if we don't count Nevin (Kevin), that's 4 managers and 4 GM's in 12 years.

Only 1 Pujols

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Only 1 Pujols

No I think there's 8 Pujols.

[Anthony Tendon]

Guh, the Arte rhetoric has grown old. These players cant hit or pitch themselves out of a paper bag. Arte's prob on his yacht drinking a mojito without a care. I dont see a new owner polishing this turd. We'll probably end up with a penny pincher  if anything. A's South.

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

I understand fans are upset, but I also think there's a drastic misunderstanding of the role and owner actually plays. Arte played a more active role a decade ago and even influenced some decisions three years ago. But since, he's hired a GM that has undergone the process of getting rid of what we as fans perceive to be "Arte's guys" and has remade the farm system in the image he believes will produce meaningful players.

A big part of the reshaping of the farm, and less money allocated toward scouts is due to technology. We have a GM who understands that with tracking technology at every field, he doesn't need to spend to fly scouts here and there and be at every game. Just look at what @Blargsaid regarding AFL games, there used to be a lot of scouts at the games, but not anymore. 

At this point, Arte is simply the money. Now because he's the money he does have a degree of influence, but the recent decisions strongly suggest that Minasian is the final word regarding personnel. 

So you can be pissed at Arte all you want, but it's going to be misdirected. 

At minimum Arte has been terrible at hiring GMs or firing them too quickly. 

[beatlesrule]

Is this supposed to be some kind of revelation?

[ThisismineScios]

I wish Arte would sell the team but it's really because I don't think he truly likes baseball anymore. I think he defers to Perry regarding personnel moves. Case in point:

-Waive Pujols. You think that was Arte's call?
-DFA Upton. Same--you think he went to Perry in a rage and demanded that?
-Raisel, 4 year contract. Do you think Arte was excited to sign a reliever to a 4-year deal? No
-Fire Joe Maddon. Arte's call? Heck no. 

I think the last two major moves Arte made were signing Rendon and firing Ausmus to hire Maddon. I think since he hired Perry, he's allowed him to make the decisions. I actually believe this is why he hasn't done any interview/pressers since after the 2020 season--he wants to make it clear he's out of the way and this is Perry's team. Of course he still has final say on budget and contracts, but I don't see Arte's fingerprints on these moves. Now what will he do with Ohtani? That's an interesting one. I don't know if he will let Perry handle the extension talks. Or how high of a budget they will get. But the Angels only have one true path to the playoffs next year: extend Ohtani, raise the spending limit above the Luxury tax, and sign 2 big FAs. If they don't do that, they are back here again in 365 days. They need to spend on a SS and 1-2 starters. If they don't, they will be irrelevant. I think Perry knows this 100%, and will spend the next few months selling Arte on how this is their only viable path to contention. I hope Arte listens like he has been. 

[Angelsjunky]

^And Arte will say, "We traded for Vernon Wells and that sucked. Then Pujols, then Hamilton, then Upton, then Rendon. Even Trout's contract is starting to look questionable. Why exactly should we sign a 30-year old shortstop for 8/$240M?" (e.g. Turner, Bogaerts, Swanson).

I think all Arte wants is for the team to be profitable - or at least that far supercedes actually winning.

As for the thread title, there's literally nowhere to go but up after this year.

[Slegnaac]

Will Pujols exchange his 10 year personal services contract for a 2 year, $10M Manager contract?