Top 100 players of all time

[happybat4]

Self explanatory. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33138638/top-100-mlb-players-all-nos-100-51

Any thoughts. Beltre is way to low on the list.

[tdawg87]

Trout at #15 should cause a lot of butthurt. 

[Second Base]

Chipper and Miguel Cabrera seem to low. 

[happybat4]

28 minutes ago, AlwaysAnAngelsFan said:

Beltre as the 6th greatest third basemen of all time seems fair to me.

 

Beltre is 40th all-time in WAR 

[happybat4]

30 minutes ago, AlwaysAnAngelsFan said:

Beltre as the 6th greatest third basemen of all time seems fair to me.

 

You can also argue Beltre is 3rd best third baseman ever. Who are the 5 you have better than him?

[failos]

Lol ESPN

[Angelsjunky]

Bryce Harper? Way too soon.

LOL at Ken Griffey Jr at #13.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, happybat4 said:

You can also argue Beltre is 3rd best third baseman ever. Who are the 5 you have better than him?

Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time. I'd probably rank Mathews and Boggs ahead of him, Brooks Robinson too. I think it is a toss-up with Brett and Chipper Jones.

[Angelsjunky]

Jeff Bagwell should be on that list. I'd take his career over Frank Thomas. Almost as good offensively and far better defender and base-runner.

Jeter...LOL. Most overrated player ever?

[HanfordGuy]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Jeter...LOL. Most overrated player ever?

Jeter skus!

[HanfordGuy]

Trout will be top 5 when he walks away from the game in 19 more years. Liked the inclusion of some of the negro league players to the list.

[happybat4]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time. I'd probably rank Mathews and Boggs ahead of him, Brooks Robinson too. I think it is a toss-up with Brett and Chipper Jones.

Schmidt for sure. Matthews was certainly better. 

Boggs and Beltre had similar value, with Beltre being higher. Boggs walked more and has a clear lead in OBP. Beltre had far more power though, he hit 350 more home runs than Boggs and has a clear lead in slugging. Boggs has the advantage on offense, but Beltre is far superior defensively and and on the base oaths.

I guess Chipper, Robinson, and Brett were better if you don't care about defense.

[happybat4]

6 hours ago, HanfordGuy said:

Trout will be top 5 when he walks away from the game in 19 more years. Liked the inclusion of some of the negro league players to the list.

If he is able to walk away. 

[Taylor]

Lol @ Jeter #28. 

Obviously, any list like this is going to be highly subjective, unless you go 100% by one statistic like WAR. 

[T.G.]

10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Bryce Harper? Way too soon.

LOL at Ken Griffey Jr at #13.

Agreed. He should be higher.

[Taylor]

4 minutes ago, cals said:

You just can’t deny Jeter’s 5 rings.

I wonder how many ESPN analysts he's given gift bags to.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

I wonder how many ESPN analysts he's given gift bags to.

Sooner or later there will be a tidal wave of voices that come after the sleazeball Jeter for his womanizing ways and “generosity” (gift baskets).

It’s just not his turn yet.  Patience.

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, cals said:

You guys just are haters.  Jeter is top 5, no question.  

I’m assuming you are joking. 

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Schmidt for sure. Matthews was certainly better. 

Boggs and Beltre had similar value, with Beltre being higher. Boggs walked more and has a clear lead in OBP. Beltre had far more power though, he hit 350 more home runs than Boggs and has a clear lead in slugging. Boggs has the advantage on offense, but Beltre is far superior defensively and and on the base oaths.

I guess Chipper, Robinson, and Brett were better if you don't care about defense.

Huh? Brooks Robinson was probably the greatest defensive third baseman in baseball history, or at least that's how he's viewed (I never saw him play).

Boggs had a much higher peak than Beltre, so it depends which you prefer. But check out their seasons, in order of WAR:

Beltre Boggs (bold = led majors)

9.7, 8.9, 8.8, 8.7, 8.3, 7.7, 7.7, 6.4, 6.3, 6.1, 6.0, 5.9, 5.5, 5.5, 4.9, 4.6, 4.3, 4.2, 4.0, 4.0, 3.9, 3.9, 3.9, 3.4, 3.3, 3.2, 3.2, 3.1, 2.9, 2.4, 2.2, 2.0, 1.5, 1.4, 1.1, 0.2, .-0.4

So Beltre has the best season, but Boggs has the next sixth best, and they're significantly above anything else Beltre did. Not only did Boggs lead the majors three times, but he was top 2 six times - Beltre's best season was 3rd in the majors.

Meaning, again, that at his peak, Boggs was significantly better (8 vs 3 seasons of 6+ WAR). 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[Angelsjunky]

18 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Agreed. He should be higher.

I hope you're joking, but I'm guessing you're not. Griffey is 42nd all-time among hitters in fWAR (and 65th if you include pitchers), 184th all-time in wRC+. Why, exactly, should he be higher than 13th, other than "I remember him being really good on TV a few years ago."

I could see top 50, but not top 30, and certainly not 13th.

[Taylor]

15 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Sooner or later there will be a tidal wave of voices that come after the sleazeball Jeter for his womanizing ways and “generosity” (gift baskets).

It’s just not his turn yet.  Patience.

Time's almost up for the Jeets.

[AngelsLakersFan]

27 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I hope you're joking, but I'm guessing you're not. Griffey is 42nd all-time among hitters in fWAR (and 65th if you include pitchers), 184th all-time in wRC+. Why, exactly, should he be higher than 13th, other than "I remember him being really good on TV a few years ago."

I could see top 50, but not top 30, and certainly not 13th.

I think Griffey is similar to Pujols. It comes down to how you want to view the second half of their careers... peak vs longevity. Griffey basically did nothing with the Reds after he turned 30. When we are talking about the greatest of all time, I personally am more of a "peak" guy, so at his best where does he he slot in on this list? I don't know if he's top 15 but I'm certainly putting him way higher than his career fWar would place him.

[T.G.]

33 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I hope you're joking, but I'm guessing you're not. Griffey is 42nd all-time among hitters in fWAR (and 65th if you include pitchers), 184th all-time in wRC+. Why, exactly, should he be higher than 13th, other than "I remember him being really good on TV a few years ago."

I could see top 50, but not top 30, and certainly not 13th.

He was magical. 

[Angelsjunky]

 

7 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think Griffey is similar to Pujols. It comes down to how you want to view the second half of their careers... peak vs longevity. Griffey basically did nothing with the Reds after he turned 30. When we are talking about the greatest of all time, I personally am more of a "peak" guy, so at his best where does he he slot in on this list? I don't know if he's top 15 but I'm certainly putting him way higher than his career fWar would place him.

Yes, I agree - and feel similarly, although think career WAR and peak performance should be balanced, which is why I like JAWS, which averages career WAR and "WAR7" (best seven years).

According to JAWS, Griffey is 6th among centerfielders and 17th among all outfielders. He's 32nd among all position players.

And of course we can't ignore the second half of his (or Pujols') careers. I hear your point, but think, at the least, we should balance peak and career in some way, even if emphasizing the former.

Anyhow, I think the most charitable I'd be for Griffey would be sneaking him into the top 30 among position players. Definitely not top 20, though. 

I'm playing with a system that ranks players according to their major league rank in WAR, so it balances peak and career nicely. By that system, Griffey is 30th all-time among position players.

[Dtwncbad]

It is hilarious to me the Jeter is basically statistically tied in lifetime WAR with guys that are not even in the HOF, and yet so many slot him as the absolute top shelf of the greatest.

Who was a better player, Jeter or Grich?

You can flip a coin.