David Fletcher’s 2021 Was Missing Something

[Mark68]

Fletcher barrelled exactly zero balls. 

David Fletcher’s 2021 Was Missing Something | Community Blog (fangraphs.com)

"

What’s 0/573?

Baseball Savant knows, but they also know it’s useless information. This is precisely why they do not display it. And it’s a shame that they don’t display it."

[tdawg87]

Lol

[Docwaukee]

20 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Fletcher barrelled exactly zero balls. 

David Fletcher’s 2021 Was Missing Something | Community Blog (fangraphs.com)

"

What’s 0/573?

Baseball Savant knows, but they also know it’s useless information. This is precisely why they do not display it. And it’s a shame that they don’t display it."

[Docwaukee]

I am less bullish that Fletcher will rebound compared to most I think. I hope he does but his 2021 doesn't even come close to fitting into the current game.  Whereas his 2020 and 2019 did.  There are probably one of two reason for that.  They might have told him to do whatever he can to put the ball in play like it's 1984.  Or the league has realized that you should never walk David Fletcher.  Throw him stuff around the zone and you'll have a high likelihood of getting him out.  If it's the latter then he's kinda screwed but my guess is that it's probably a combo of both.  

He has a very high out of zone swing rate.  It's gone up every year of his career.  His swing rate overall went up significantly this year.  His bb rate went from about 8.5% over the last two years to 4.7% in 2021.  He just has to have better PD if he's going to succeed.  He can't be that novelty that we hear about when he comes to the plate.  He needs to go back to his 2019 numbers or he's toast.  

[tdawg87]

Warm, buttery toast.

[Lazorko Saves]

Here are three more hitters with terrible "barrel" metrics.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Here are three more hitters with terrible "barrel" metrics.

Yeah I don't think so.

[Taylor]

He was missing counting stats, too.

[Lazorko Saves]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah I don't think so.

You're right, Tony Gwynn known for that consistently great launch angle, that's why he hit 600 career HRs.

The point isn't Fletcher anywhere near their class, the point is some players don't fit in the modern StatCast obsession and yet are still useful players.

I swear if this stuff were around in 1982 there would have been articles telling us how much more valuable Dave Kingman is than Rod Carew

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

You're right, Tony Gwynn known for that consistently great launch angle, that's why he hit 600 career HRs.

The point isn't Fletcher anywhere near their class, the point is some players don't fit in the modern StatCast obsession and yet are still useful players.

I swear if this stuff were around in 1982 there would have been articles telling us how much more valuable Dave Kingman is than Rod Carew

What. 

Fletcher doesn't fit into the "modern StatCast obsession" nor was he even remotely useful last year.

Sometimes these things exist for a reason. And there's a reason players like Fletcher finding success are the exception.

[UndertheHalo]

I found a guy.  Dunno.  Thought this was a good a place as any to put him.

Edited November 10, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[Lazorko Saves]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Sometimes these things exist for a reason. And there's a reason players like Fletcher finding success are the exception.

Exactly my point.  You took the long road there, but got there in the end.

[tdawg87]

31 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Exactly my point.  You took the long road there, but got there in the end.

No I think we're looking at what I said from completely different angles:

Fletcher sees (saw) success based on...luck? Random bullshit? But ultimately it caught up with him this year. And that's exactly what the "StatCast" stuff was saying.

Advanced metrics are far from infallible; the games actually have to be played. But guys like Fletcher are going to be rarer and rarer as the years go on, because of advanced scouting. 

I hope he rebounds. We NEED him to. But it's obvious he needs to make some serious adjustments otherwise he's not going to be starting come July. And these adjustments aren't going to be because he has this magical ability to overcome the advancements in pitching, scouting, alignments, etc...

[Blarg]

He needs to take walks on those out of zone pitches and quit thinking he has Vlad Guerrero skills. Fletcher became absolutely stupid this year at the plate and if he goes another half season with the same plate approach he will be playing bench, then DFA if that doesn't change his thought process. 

His ass should be over at driveline right now, sorting out what he can do to have a future career.

[AngelsFaninGA]

How do you have zero barreled balls despite 2 homers? I'd assume a homer would imply a barreled ball in most cases, especially for a player like Fletcher who isn't exactly going to muscle out a ball he doesn't square up. 

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

How do you have zero barreled balls despite 2 homers? I'd assume a homer would imply a barreled ball in most cases, especially for a player like Fletcher who isn't exactly going to muscle out a ball he doesn't square up. 

I'm guessing the exit velocity was something like 70.

Honestly I don't even remember him hitting 1, let alone 2.

[AngelsFaninGA]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm guessing the exit velocity was something like 70.

Honestly I don't even remember him hitting 1, let alone 2.

I mean I could barrel the absolute shit out of a ball and the exit velocity would still be 30

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, cals said:

I’m also calling bullshit on this.  He hit plenty of hard liners down the line on balls thrown over his head.

I believe you need an exit velocity of 100 mph

[Angelsjunky]

Maybe we need to look at Fletch as the new Maicer Izturis. Like Fletcher when he was in the minors and then called up, Maicer was never expected to be a regular. He was a fill-in until the Angels rich crop of middle infield prospects graduated: Howie Kendrick, Erick Aybar, Brandon Wood, Sean Rodriguez, Alberto Callaspo. Obviously those five had variable careers, with only Howie and Aybar becoming Angel regulars; Rodriguez ended up playing elsewhere, Callaspo left and then came back, and Wood became kindling. But Maicer was a fixture on the team for eight years, from 2005-12, usually playing about 100 games via filling in as needed. He wasn't meant to be a starter and was never really pencilled in as such, but ended up playing much more than your typical bench guy.

Now the current Angels don't have the luxury of a bunch of quality middle infield prospects, at least none that are ready. Jeremiah Jackson, Kyren Paris, and Arol Vera are all at least 2-3 years away. But they do have Michael Stefanic and Brandon Davis, both of whom will likely see major league time in 2022, plus of course, Luis Rengifo, who I keep thinking is on the verge of becoming a good player. Maybe next year.

I agree with @Dochalo, that signing Chris Taylor would be a huge benefit to this team but if not, someone like Jonathan Villar. So you go with Taylor/Villar and Fletcher, and you rotate in Rengifo, Stefanic, and Davis. If Fletcher falters and one of those guys impresses, Fletch can become the new Maicer, a role in which he would be just fine for.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Maybe we need to look at Fletch as the new Maicer Izturis. Like Fletcher when he was in the minors and then called up, Maicer was never expected to be a regular. He was a fill-in until the Angels rich crop of middle infield prospects graduated: Howie Kendrick, Erick Aybar, Brandon Wood, Sean Rodriguez, Alberto Callaspo. Obviously those five had variable careers, with only Howie and Aybar becoming Angel regulars; Rodriguez ended up playing elsewhere, Callaspo left and then came back, and Wood became kindling. But Maicer was a fixture on the team for eight years, from 2005-12, usually playing about 100 games via filling in as needed. He wasn't meant to be a starter and was never really pencilled in as such, but ended up playing much more than your typical bench guy.

Now the current Angels don't have the luxury of a bunch of quality middle infield prospects, at least none that are ready. Jeremiah Jackson, Kyren Paris, and Arol Vera are all at least 2-3 years away. But they do have Michael Stefanic and Brandon Davis, both of whom will likely see major league time in 2022, plus of course, Luis Rengifo, who I keep thinking is on the verge of becoming a good player. Maybe next year.

I agree with @Dochalo, that signing Chris Taylor would be a huge benefit to this team but if not, someone like Jonathan Villar. So you go with Taylor/Villar and Fletcher, and you rotate in Rengifo, Stefanic, and Davis. If Fletcher falters and one of those guys impresses, Fletch can become the new Maicer, a role in which he would be just fine for.

 

I'd like to see them sign both Taylor and Villar.  I know it'll never happen.  But both have positional flexibility.  I put that as a priority on my list above a second starter.  

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I'd like to see them sign both Taylor and Villar.  I know it'll never happen.  But both have positional flexibility.  I put that as a priority on my list above a second starter.  

Hmm. Maybe. I'd put Taylor above a second starter, and maybe even a solid middle infielder in general--thanks to your argument--but I wouldn't put both above a second starter, and I wouldn't put Villar or a similar type player above an elite closer. My priority list would be:

1. A very good starter (Gausman, Stroman)

2. Chris Taylor

3. An elite reliever (Iglesias, maybe Jansen)

4. If not Taylor, a solid middle infielder (e.g. Villar)

5. A solid to good second starter (DeScaflani, Cobb, or a higher upside risk like Luzardo)

6. A second, quality bench player 

7. A (second) quality reliever

8. Another (third) quality reliever

9. A back-up catcher

Or something like that.

[ukyah]

my eyes tell me fletcher is a hitter that makes contact on all pitches and locations and hits to all fields. somebody show me that's wrong. i agree that he needs to rededicate himself to using better plate discipline.

[Angel Oracle]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I am less bullish that Fletcher will rebound compared to most I think. I hope he does but his 2021 doesn't even come close to fitting into the current game.  Whereas his 2020 and 2019 did.  There are probably one of two reason for that.  They might have told him to do whatever he can to put the ball in play like it's 1984.  Or the league has realized that you should never walk David Fletcher.  Throw him stuff around the zone and you'll have a high likelihood of getting him out.  If it's the latter then he's kinda screwed but my guess is that it's probably a combo of both.  

He has a very high out of zone swing rate.  It's gone up every year of his career.  His swing rate overall went up significantly this year.  His bb rate went from about 8.5% over the last two years to 4.7% in 2021.  He just has to have better PD if he's going to succeed.  He can't be that novelty that we hear about when he comes to the plate.  He needs to go back to his 2019 numbers or he's toast.  

What fool told him to approach 2021 the way he did?

Hopefully a fool no longer employed by the team

[Angelsjunky]

25 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

What fool told him to approach 2021 the way he did?

Hopefully a fool no longer employed by the team

A little birdy told me that he got a call from Mickey Hatcher.

[Docwaukee]

38 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Hmm. Maybe. I'd put Taylor above a second starter, and maybe even a solid middle infielder in general--thanks to your argument--but I wouldn't put both above a second starter, and I wouldn't put Villar or a similar type player above an elite closer. My priority list would be:

1. A very good starter (Gausman, Stroman)

2. Chris Taylor

3. An elite reliever (Iglesias, maybe Jansen)

4. If not Taylor, a solid middle infielder (e.g. Villar)

5. A solid to good second starter (DeScaflani, Cobb, or a higher upside risk like Luzardo)

6. A second, quality bench player 

7. A (second) quality reliever

8. Another (third) quality reliever

9. A back-up catcher

Or something like that.

agreed not both.  but it's sure way up there for me.  I'm really concerned about Fletcher rebounding and right now our MIF depth chart is Fletch, Rengifo, Mayfield, Gosselin, Wong, Stefanic, Jose Rojas, the dude they just picked of waivers, and Brendon Davis.  That's pretty miserable.  

I like your list although I might move backup catcher up a bit.