Official 2021-22 Hot Stove League Thread.

[Dtwncbad]

9 minutes ago, ettin said:

Seems really unlikely. If they gave him this deal and then flipped him, no other future Marlins extension candidates would ever believe ownership again (and the Marlins already have a bad reputation regarding this). This is simply them locking up those arbitration years at numbers they are happy with and tacking on the two option years so that they can move him at their leisure after the 2024 or 2025 seasons (or even the 2026 Trade Deadline), presuming he is healthy. They are competing now, it would be stupid for them to move him in the next couple of seasons.

You assume Alcantara would not want to leave Miami.

I am not saying this is what they are actually doing.  I am just noticing that one limiting factor on acquiring players is the (often) small amount of control left.

Suddenly Alcantara is controllable for 6 years??  That’s pretty nice at that price!

Just imagine if Alcantara also wanted this.  Lock up some life changing wealth AND get out of Florida?  Doesn’t seem like a bad deal to me or anything he would be upset about.   For all we know a player would want this!

What you describe would be if a player felt deceived or betrayed.  My fantasy of this strategic move would not require deception or betrayal.  Imagine a team goes to a guy that wants to be traded and says let’s do this and get you out of here and we both win.

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Gonna have to call BS on this..   There isn't a cutting tool big enough to cut that massive head off Lodge.

You would have to change blades twice just to get through the hair.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

When is the non-tender list coming out.... I could see a few guys coming through that. Arms wise.

I saw the Rays may non-tender Yarbrough wouldn't be a bad backend guy and would open another for trade?

Saw Voit might have some interest? Can he play left? AR his knee issues a longterm deal?

Adam Duvall if we decide to trade an OFer for a Starting Pitcher? I know his OBP blows. 

Richard Rodriguez from the Braves he had some good #'s with the Pirates. But, was left off the Playoff roster?

Matthew Boyd may also, but he probably won't be back this year due to TJ surgery? 

[Dtwncbad]

If the Angels signed Kris Bryant to play 1B, it would free up Walsh to deal for pitching.

Gotta look at all angles.

[ettin]

38 minutes ago, HanfordGuy said:

 

Did not read the article but I have noted that the Rangers see an opportunity to compete in the A.L. West which has greater parity heading into 2022, i.e. all of the teams, except, perhaps, the Athletics are relatively equal and Texas sees an opportunity to sneak into the playoffs. Additionally, if the new CBA implements these expanded playoffs being discussed, that, too, could make it easier for the Rangers to get in as well.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

19 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I remember my Dad telling me Zahn could bring it when he first came up with the Dodgers but it was flat and hittable so he went the complete other way and started rolling balls to home plate and found success.  McKaskill...  Dude had a slider from hell then stopped throwing it completely for like two years.  Another dude that seemingly reinvented himself as a slop strike throwing machine.

I worked out with Greg Maddox. Dude could pop it 96mph with the Cubs! Didn't need to, just had to show it 91-92 3-5x a game. Kept everyone honest. I was next to him in a bully session. I picked his Brain quite a bit. Between that convo and the week with Steve Rogers I learned so much.

[Inside Pitch]

This Manfred ball story can't be true..   I refuse to believe someone could be that stupid or try to get over doing something like that with as much data gathering as there is in the game today.. 

What a tool.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I remember my Dad telling me Zahn could bring it when he first came up with the Dodgers but it was flat and hittable so he went the complete other way and started rolling balls to home plate and found success.  McKaskill...  Dude had a slider from hell then stopped throwing it completely for like two years.  Another dude that seemingly reinvented himself as a slop strike throwing machine.

McKaskill had to shelve the slider due to his elbow. He was pitching on borrowed time with it.

[ettin]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You assume Alcantara would not want to leave Miami.

I am not saying this is what they are actually doing.  I am just noticing that one limiting factor on acquiring players is the (often) small amount of control left.

Suddenly Alcantara is controllable for 6 years??  That’s pretty nice at that price!

Just imagine if Alcantara also wanted this.  Lock up some life changing wealth AND get out of Florida?  Doesn’t seem like a bad deal to me or anything he would be upset about.   For all we know a player would want this!

What you describe would be if a player felt deceived or betrayed.  My fantasy of this strategic move would not require deception or betrayal.  Imagine a team goes to a guy that wants to be traded and says let’s do this and get you out of here and we both win.

I doubt it is a stretch to say that he would not have signed the contract if Miami was so off-putting to him that he would want to leave soon after. By your own argument you said his contract is pretty nice at that price, so why would the Marlins want to move him? If both parties wanted him out of Florida, then why even go through the motions of signing an extension and simply trade his 3 arbitration years to a team that wants him and let them extend him at this fantastic deal?

Respectfully, you are trying to create a scenario that really does not make sense for either party. If Sandy was unsure, he could ask for an opt-out, right? Players and teams do not go through the mechanics of signing a guaranteed contract for millions of dollars if they both don't agree. This is just not realistic in any form or fashion, sorry.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

McKaskill had to shelve the slider due to his elbow. He was pitching on borrowed time with it.

Witt curveballs followed by McKaskill sliders...  LOL.   Then a couple years later after he's lost the slider Fin comes up with that forkball...    

Fast forward 40 years and the Angels are dumpster diving once again..   

[rafibomb]

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by rafibomb

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

 

bummer.  Wendle would have been a very solid depth piece.  

[mmc]

2 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

 

[mmc]

 

[Dtwncbad]

9 minutes ago, ettin said:

I doubt it is a stretch to say that he would not have signed the contract if Miami was so off-putting to him that he would want to leave soon after. By your own argument you said his contract is pretty nice at that price, so why would the Marlins want to move him? If both parties wanted him out of Florida, then why even go through the motions of signing an extension and simply trade his 3 arbitration years to a team that wants him and let them extend him at this fantastic deal?

Respectfully, you are trying to create a scenario that really does not make sense for either party. If Sandy was unsure, he could ask for an opt-out, right? Players and teams do not go through the mechanics of signing a guaranteed contract for millions of dollars if they both don't agree. This is just not realistic in any form or fashion, sorry.

I disagree.  If a player wanted security and wanted to play for a contender, it makes sense for him.  And the team creates more value in the player because the acquiring team does not have to risk not being able to extend the player acquired.

How many times have we heard “the Angels can’t pay that price for that player with only one more year of control.”

So we agree this is not what is happening with Alcantara and we agree this hasn’t really been done as far as we know

But we do not agree on if this could be a viable win/win strategy in the right circumstance.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

decent prospect actually.  probably equivalent to a Paris type.  Or maybe a Jeremiah Jackson.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

26 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

If the Angels signed Kris Bryant to play 1B, it would free up Walsh to deal for pitching.

Gotta look at all angles.

I would not Trade Walsh right now. As he is the only other power lefthanded bat in the lineup with Ohtani. 

Not a fan of Bryant. Not a fan of being too Right-handed or left-handed in the lineup or rotation. Bullpen it doesn't effect it due to the short innings and the possibility of differing arm slots.

[rafibomb]

 

6 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

Pipeline has him as their 21st ranked prospect. Maybe I would probably compare this to us trading D'Shawn Knowles for him if Knowles didn't completely tank his prospect status this past season.

Edited November 30, 2021 by rafibomb

[rafibomb]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

decent prospect actually.  probably equivalent to a Paris type.  Or maybe a Jeremiah Jackson.  

Yikes my comparison is completely different to say the least lol well I did say it's if he didn't suck this past season so maybe not so bad

Edited November 30, 2021 by rafibomb

[mmc]

 

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I would not Trade Walsh right now. As he is the only other power lefthanded bat in the lineup with Ohtani. 

Not a fan of Bryant. Not a fan of being too Right-handed or left-handed in the lineup or rotation. Bullpen it doesn't effect it due to the short innings and the possibility of differing arm slots.

I have been saying for decades that I don’t really think there is such a thing as a lineup being “too right handed.”

Generally speaking, right handed hitters can adequately hit right handed pitching, otherwise they can’t survive in the majors.  Everyday players that are right handed don’t typically struggle against right handed pitching.

That is not true for left handed hitters.  You can have a long career in the majors as a left handed hitter even if you have trouble hitting left handed pitching.  Many everyday players that are lefties struggle against left handed pitching.  So it is very possible to have a lineup that is “too left handed.”

 

[mmc]

 

[rafibomb]

I feel so dumb just waiting for the Angels to make a move before the lockout.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, mmc said:

 

He might want to check the accuracy of those first two numbers.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Yikes my comparison is completely different to say the least lol well I did say it's if he didn't suck this past season so maybe not so bad

I looked on fangraphs and they have him as a 45FV but again, prospect lists and whatever.  per his numbers it seems he got speed and raw power with good PD and miami has a pretty good system.  I've never seen the guy so who knows.  comp pick in the first round from 2019 so he's got some cache.  That's why I thought Jackson was a good comp.