won't somebody please think of the children!

[Lifetime]

Which completely disregards the fact that 18 is an arbitrary age when it comes to some decisions.  Nothing magical happens when you turn 18 except you will be tried as an adult, can join the military yet you still can't drink a beer.  Barring some kind of medical condition the "average" person can create a child before then yet they can't make decisions about what is done after that moment.      

 

As to 72 hours that was addressed before - many kids are going to be afraid to tell their parents so no that's not always enough time to take those steps.  In a perfect world sure but not in the real world and that's why you hear stories of girls hiding their pregancy from their parents until they go into labor. 

uh no that isn't arbitrary, that is the age when they legally become an adult - and that is the age they can legally start making decisions, including medical decisions, without parental consent. Underage children can do/have the ability to do a lot of things before they have a legal right to make decisions on the outcome or ramifications of those actions - including but not limited to having sex and becoming pregnant. 

 

And a child being afraid to tell a parent is no excuse for removing a parent's rights regarding those children. Again, there isn't even a requirement for any professional medical advice or counseling with or without parental consent. So even if they are too afraid to talk to their parents, they don't even have to talk to a doctor or practitioner before talking the drug. This is ridiculous.   

[Lifetime]

the conservative argument of not wanting young women not having access to it from this thread is laughable. 

good counter.

 

So far I haven't seen anyone argue that young women shouldn't have access to it. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

They can legally make some decisions.  They can die for their country but they still can't legally buy a beer.  How do those types of decisions about ages, rights and so on change?  Based on court decisions and legislation.  In this case so far the court has decided that being 18 isn't a requirement so until this fight begins (if it hasn't already) and it's overturned the courts have decided this isn't something that requires parental consent. 

 

A child being afraid of telling a parent isn't a reason for removing that "right" the parent has to you but to me it's no more fair to tell a minor who is capable of having a child that they have no say if they run the risk of becoming pregnant or become pregnant.  As far as I can tell parental consent regarding abortions is a states right issue as the feds haven't required it.  The entire thing seems pretty arbitrary given that in Arkansas the age of consent is 16 yet a 16 or 17 year old needs parental consent to get an abortion.  Some states are saying it's okay to legally have sex but you don't ultimately control what happens next even if you take precautions.  The feds haven't said minors can consent but now a ruling is saying they can get this pill.  Seems like the states and this country are all over the place on this one. 

[Futch Winkleman]

the conservative argument of not wanting young women not having access to it from this thread is laughable. 

 

 

Reminds me of this:

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/digital-shorts/video/gob-tampons/1418195/

[Lifetime]

They can legally make some decisions.  They can die for their country but they still can't legally buy a beer.  How do those types of decisions about ages, rights and so on change?  Based on court decisions and legislation.  In this case so far the court has decided that being 18 isn't a requirement so until this fight begins (if it hasn't already) and it's overturned the courts have decided this isn't something that requires parental consent. 

That depends on the state and drinking age has nothing to do with parental rights or parental decisions made on behalf of minor children. Eighteen isn't arbitrary, it is the legal age of adulthood and affords many rights to the adult and removes parental decision rights from the parent. And again, yes the court has decided this isn't something that requires parental consent, and thus the argument here. It's a medical decision for a minor child and that right should not be removed. And as stated previously, not only has the court removed the parental rights in this issue, there is also no requirement for any medical advice or counseling regarding taking this drug/treatment.

 

A child being afraid of telling a parent isn't a reason for removing that "right" the parent has to you but to me it's no more fair to tell a minor who is capable of having a child that they have no say if they run the risk of becoming pregnant or become pregnant.  As far as I can tell parental consent regarding abortions is a states right issue as the feds haven't required it.  The entire thing seems pretty arbitrary given that in Arkansas the age of consent is 16 yet a 16 or 17 year old needs parental consent to get an abortion.  Some states are saying it's okay to legally have sex but you don't ultimately control what happens next even if you take precautions.  The feds haven't said minors can consent but now a ruling is saying they can get this pill.  Seems like the states and this country are all over the place on this one. 

A child is physically capable of concieving at 12 years old or even younger. Do you really think they have the mental acuity to be making medical treatment decisions or that they should be? And again, it isn't about telling the child they have no say, it's a matter of saying they need to discuss it with their parent and get their consent before they have a medical procedure or take a drug, or at the very least, have a doctor advise and prescribe the treatment. 

 

Legal adult age (or age of majority) is the same in all states (except Alabama 19 and Nebraska 19). This is the legal age when they can take control of their person, decisions and actions and ends the parents' authority or responsibility of the same.

 

Out of curiosity, are you a parent Cat?

[arch stanton]

I don't know. I think all those conversations should happen between parent and child when they hit puberty, not when they're searching for a morning after pill and there's nothing stopping anyone from getting medical advise except maybe their own shortsightedness. I think you and I are destined to sit on opposite sides of every thread involving federal reach.

 

For the record, I have a daughter about to turn 21 and another about to turn 12. No grandkids. No abortions. Hours of uncomfortable discussions about extremely personal topics.

[Lifetime]

I don't know. I think all those conversations should happen between parent and child when they hit puberty, not when they're searching for a morning after pill and there's nothing stopping anyone from getting medical advise except maybe their own shortsightedness. I think you and I are destined to sit on opposite sides of every thread involving federal reach.

 

For the record, I have a daughter about to turn 21 and another about to turn 12. No grandkids. No abortions. Hours of uncomfortable discussions about extremely personal topics.

True, no one is stopping them from getting medical advice, but then that's not the point. It should be required. Shortsightedness? We're talking about children here, they aren't going to go get a doctor's advice on this unless they have to. 

 

I agree that conversations should happen before this occurs but I also think that the parent should still give consent for a minor's medical procedure or treatment. Again, it's a parent's legal right and obligation to make medical decisions (etc) for their children until they reach the age of majority. If a court (and now the President) is saying parental consent is not necessary it is chipping away at parental rights. I don't see how anyone can honestly argue otherwise.

[Mudville]

the conservative argument of not wanting young women not having access to it from this thread is laughable. 

 

So far this thread is not about refusing birth control for women or even young women. The issue is parental consent for children to access pharmaceuticals that could cause a health risk. These are not adults in any sense of the word being given a choice that is certainly an issue that isn't on the level of a junior high school child's ability to properly process the risks.

 

That said, the incidents of teenage pregnancy in lower income neighborhoods is only maintaining a culture of poverty when kids have to leave school to tend to their babies when they themselves are hardly into their puberty years. It perpetuates a cycle where no one gets out of the ghetto or off government aid simply because they have to do what they have to in order to feed a mouth they were never prepared to take care of. And most are on their own, the fathers skip out on all responsibility.

 

So, give the parents the control or control teenage pregnancy without adult interference. Seems like neither is going to make anyone happy.

[HaloMagic]

A child is physically capable of concieving at 12 years old or even younger. Do you really think they have the mental acuity to be making medical treatment decisions or that they should be? And again, it isn't about telling the child they have no say, it's a matter of saying they need to discuss it with their parent and get their consent before they have a medical procedure or take a drug, or at the very least, have a doctor advise and prescribe the treatment.

Do you really think that a parent who would prevent that 12 year old child from stopping conception has the mental acuity to be making medical treatment decisions? And it's not about the child having a say. It's about the child have the final say. And the side effects on Plan B and Plan B One Step hardly require a doctor to discuss them. Many current OTC drugs have more serious side effects. I guess we should just make everything require a prescription.

Legal adult age (or age of majority) is the same in all states (except Alabama 19 and Nebraska 19). This is the legal age when they can take control of their person, decisions and actions and ends the parents' authority or responsibility of the same.

What makes most states say 18 is the age of majority while Alabama and Nebraska say 19 besides those states picking a completely arbitrary number that they felt comfortable with? Is there something universally different about 18 and 19 year olds that only the residents in two of our states are privy to?

[Lifetime]

Do you really think that a parent who would prevent that 12 year old child from stopping conception has the mental acuity to be making medical treatment decisions? And it's not about the child having a say. It's about the child have the final say. And the side effects on Plan B and Plan B One Step hardly require a doctor to discuss them. Many current OTC drugs have more serious side effects. I guess we should just make everything require a prescription.

What makes most states say 18 is the age of majority while Alabama and Nebraska say 19 besides those states picking a completely arbitrary number that they felt comfortable with? Is there something universally different about 18 and 19 year olds that only the residents in two of our states are privy to?

There's no reason to assume that a parent would not have the mental acuity to make such a decision but let's not ignore the fact that they have a legal right and obligation to make such decisions on behalf of a minor. And yes, a child, as a minor, should not have the final say in their medical treatment or any other number of decisions.

 

Arguing that other over the counter drugs have equal or worse possible side effects does not remove the argument that this drug should have medical advise or counseling prior to being given to a minor. You don't think this drug hardly requires such attention, I disagree. And yes, I would say that the majority of medications, including OTC should have a prescription to be sold to a minor. 

 

I don't know why Alabama and Nebraska use 19 instead of 18. Eighteen is the age of majority in most countries as well as almost all US states with the two noted exceptions.

[HaloMagic]

No, but they shouldn't be in the business of taking that opportunity away from parents either.

You really didn't answer my questions about children taking drugs either HM.

Sorry. I missed your earlier post.

For me, ultimately it's not whether a child should be able to do something or not. It's that I don't believe I have the right to tell someone else what they can and can't do. As a parent I exercise what you would call a right to make many decisions on behalf of my child. But I'm not sure what gives me the right. And I definitely think that a child should have the right to decide whether they should have a child or not. No one should be forced to become pregnant if they desire otherwise. Not as long as we have the ability to prevent it.

I guess I'm just really not in love with the idea of government. It exists so a group of people can tell an individual person what they are allowed to do. As hard as I try I can't think of any justification for allowing that to happen. It's simply a matter of having a bigger stick. Government should exist to prevent people from telling other what to do. I'll play along with it as I clearly have a smaller stick than the US government but I refuse to join them and everyone else in telling others their place.

[Glen]

Haven't dipped my toes into the spin board waters in a while, but this thread drew me back in.  OK, as for the potential side effects lifetime keeps mentioning:

 

http://women.webmd.com/guide/plan-b?page=2

 

Plan B or Plan B One-Step is considered safe for most women. You should not take it if you are pregnant; at this time, there is limited data on the safety of taking Plan B or Plan B One-Step while pregnant.

Potential side effects of Plan B or Plan B One-Step include:

• nausea
• abdominal pain
• fatigue
• headache
• menstrual changes
• dizziness
• breast tenderness
• vomiting
• diarrhea

 

Nothing terribly alarming there.  One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the disagreeable (or "asshole" if you want to take it to the extreme) parent factor.  There are a lot of lousy parents out there, parents that their kids don't want to talk to about these things for various reasons.  They might get kicked out of the house, they might get beat like a rented mule, they might face various other consequences if they have to tote their parents along to get this drug.  If they can get it on their own, it removes one potential serious conflict.  I understand a parent's desire to know what is going on in their child's (or childrens) life but that makes a baseline assumption that all parents are at least pretty good and that isn't the case.  I hope that my daughter would never have to go behind my back to get something like this but if for whatever reason she feels that is necessary, I'd prefer that to her having an unwanted baby. 

[Lifetime]

Well again Glen, this is a matter of parental rights vs. that of a child under the age of majority. There are decisions that are and should be legally afforded the parent until the child reaches the age of majority. Yes there are some parents that aren't so great at their jobs of parenting. So because of those, we should restrict the parental rights as we see fit for all parents? And by the way, a parent cannot legally kick their minor child out of the house nor can they beat their children like a mule. And again, even if the parental rights are bypassed here, and I still argue they should not, then at the very least there should be a professional adult advocating for the child to use this treatment/drug and not a child making the decision on their own.

 

As for the side effects, most aren't a real big deal but that isn't the entire story. There are interactions, proper usage issues, etc. that magnify side effects and can even create new ones. 

[Glen]

Well again Glen, this is a matter of parental rights vs. that of a child under the age of majority. There are decisions that are and should be legally afforded the parent until the child reaches the age of majority. Yes there are some parents that aren't so great at their jobs of parenting. So because of those, we should restrict the parental rights as we see fit for all parents? And by the way, a parent cannot legally kick their minor child out of the house nor can they beat their children like a mule. And again, even if the parental rights are bypassed here, and I still argue they should not, then at the very least there should be a professional adult advocating for the child to use this treatment/drug and not a child making the decision on their own.

 

As for the side effects, most aren't a real big deal but that isn't the entire story. There are interactions, proper usage issues, etc. that magnify side effects and can even create new ones. 

 

 

I think you have to consider all angles before enacting (or removing) a law.  And yes, many of the things I mentioned are against the law, but they still happen.  I understand your point about some professional adult advising the child on this and helping them with the decision but I just don't know how realistic that is.  If we're taking the parent out of the equation how do we say who is an acceptable substitute?  I think it also goes back to the point HM was making about the seeming arbitrariness of the age of majority. 

[Lifetime]

For the Consumer

Applies to levonorgestrel: oral tablet

Other dosage forms:

• intrauteral device

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction while taking levonorgestrel (the active ingredient contained in Plan B hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Call your doctor at once if you have severe pain in your lower stomach or side. This could be a sign of a tubal pregnancy (a pregnancy that implants in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus). A tubal pregnancy is a medical emergency.

Less serious side effects of levonorgestrel may include:

• nausea, diarrhea, or stomach pain;

• dizziness, tired feeling;

• breast pain or tenderness;

• changes in your menstrual periods; or

• headache.

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects.

For Healthcare Professionals

Applies to levonorgestrel: intrauteral device, oral tablet, subcutaneous implant

Cardiovascular

Cardiovascular side effects have included hypertension.

Dermatologic

Dermatologic side effects have included acne and other skin disorders.

Gastrointestinal

Gastrointestinal side effects have included abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.

Genitourinary

Genitourinary side effects have included leukorrhea, vaginitis, dysmenorrhea, breast pain, abnormal pap smear and decreased libido. Very common adverse reactions (greater than 1 in 10 users) include uterine/vaginal bleeding (including spotting, irregular bleeding, heavy bleeding, oligomenorrhea and amenorrhea) and ovarian cysts.

Nervous system

Nervous system side effects have included headache, dizziness and nervousness.

Respiratory

Respiratory side effects have included upper respiratory infection and sinusitis.

General

General side effects have included weight gain and fatigue.

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects have included depression.

Musculoskeletal

Musculoskeletal side effects have included back pain.

Other

Other side effects have included postmarketing reports of device breakage and angioedema.

 

A total of 192 drugs (694 brand and generic names) are known to interact with Plan B (levonorgestrel).

• 13 major drug interactions (37 brand and generic names)
• 157 moderate drug interactions (599 brand and generic names)
• 22 minor drug interactions (58 brand and generic names)

 

 

 

Read more at http://www.drugs.com/sfx/plan-b-side-effects.html#PtvMyMxq5wv3oQAG.99

 

_____________________________

 

Yes, I think a minor should have a parent's consent and at the very least a doctor's prescription or advice/counseling before taking this course.

[Lifetime]

I think you have to consider all angles before enacting (or removing) a law.  And yes, many of the things I mentioned are against the law, but they still happen.  I understand your point about some professional adult advising the child on this and helping them with the decision but I just don't know how realistic that is.  If we're taking the parent out of the equation how do we say who is an acceptable substitute?  I think it also goes back to the point HM was making about the seeming arbitrariness of the age of majority. 

yes they happen, but that doesn't justify taking away parental rights from every parent. And yes, you do have to consider all angles before enacting or removing a law. My argument is that this removes a parental right and it is not justified when considering all angles.

 

How is having a qualified medical professional helping a minor make a decision to take a drug or a medical procedure not realistic. As I have stated several times now, if you are removing the right of the parent, and I don't think there is justification for doing so, than at the very least a medical professional needs to advise/counsel the child regarding the drug/procedure including the ugly facts about possible side effects and interactions. 

 

If you want to argue the proper age of majority, as to when a child assumes rights to control their person versus a parent's rights and legal obligation, let's hear the alternative argument. The age is a pretty well established and long standing threshold across the world. That hardly seems arbitrary or without basis or reason. 

[HaloMagic]

For the Consumer

Applies to acetaminophen: oral capsule, oral granule effervescent, oral liquid, oral suspension, oral tablet, oral tablet chewable, oral tablet disintegrating, oral tablet extended release

Other dosage forms:

intravenous solution

rectal suppository

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction while taking acetaminophen: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Stop taking this medication and call your doctor at once if you have a serious side effect such as:

• nausea, upper stomach pain, itching, loss of appetite;
• dark urine, clay-colored stools; or
• jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes).

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects.

For Healthcare Professionals

Applies to acetaminophen: compounding powder, intravenous solution, oral capsule, oral granule effervescent, oral liquid, oral powder for reconstitution, oral suspension, oral tablet, oral tablet chewable, oral tablet disintegrating, oral tablet extended release, rectal suppository

Gastrointestinal

Gastrointestinal side effects have included nausea and vomiting. Cases of acute pancreatitis have been reported.

Renal

Renal side effects have included acute renal failure, acute tubular necrosis, and interstitial nephritis.

Hypersensitivity

Hypersensitivity side effects including anaphylaxis and fixed drug eruptions have been reported rarely in association with acetaminophen use.

Hematologic

Hematologic side effects including cases of thrombocytopenia associated with acetaminophen have been reported.

Dermatologic

Dermatologic side effects including erythematous skin rashes associated with acetaminophen have been reported. Acetaminophen associated bullous erythema and purpura fulminans have been reported.

Respiratory

Respiratory side effects have included dyspnea and a case of acetaminophen-induced eosinophilic pneumonia.

Cardiovascular

Cardiovascular side effects including hypertension and hypotension have been reported following the administration of acetaminophen.

Metabolic

Metabolic side effects have included hypokalemia. Metabolic side effects including metabolic acidosis have been reported following a massive overdose of acetaminophen.

Nervous system

Nervous system side effects associated with IV acetaminophen have included headache, insomnia, and fatigue.

Musculoskeletal

Musculoskeletal side effects associated with acetaminophen IV have included muscle spasms and trismus.

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects associated with acetaminophen IV have included anxiety

A total of 157 drugs (890 brand and generic names) are known to interact with acetaminophen.

• 14 major drug interactions (83 brand and generic names)
• 56 moderate drug interactions (224 brand and generic names)
• 87 minor drug interactions (583 brand and generic names)

Read more at http://www.drugs.com/sfx/acetaminophen-side-effects.html#2mkaKTPtF5UmBczM.99

_____________________________

I wonder if they'll give me a discount if I fill both of my kids Tylenol prescriptions during the same trip.

[halobob]

When you have kids you may feel differently about your children being able to put drugs into their bodies without any kind of guidance.

 

I agree that the government has been obliterating personal rights for a while now.  I just think the right to be able to be the guidance in your children's lives is one more thing they are taking away.

My kids wont be prego before age 17.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

It gives them one less reason not to have protected sex.  I know kids will have sex, I would just prefer they use a condom.

 

When I went away to college, my mother told me that she didn't expect that I would abstain from sex, and she openly discussed the merits of condoms - and this was before HIV and AIDS. I'm glad that I got that kind of unfiltered information.

[Glen]

My kids wont be prego before age 17.

 

 

 

Every parent says that.  Many of them are wrong.

[Taylor]

Parents need to stop being naive about sex, and actually talk with their kids about it.

 

The government needs to stop giving kids a pass for making poor decisions.

[Angels Never Die]

If tylenol is okay for minors to buy OTC, then I don't see why this shouldn't be okay.

[Taylor]

So popping a pill to get rid of a headache should require the same level of thought as popping a pill to get rid of the possibility of pregnancy.

 

Even if you are pro-choice and you don't believe life begins until a child is born, you have to appreciate the weight of a decision to have unprotected sex as a minor and the consequences that come with that. Rape is a different story. I'm talking about consensual sex between minors without contraception. Should we be saying, "Just go for it, and you can pop a pill in the morning as if what you did has no consequences."

 

Not to mention the emotional impact sex has on a person, particularly a young person. It's not a purely physical act like eating and drinking. The more we teach kids, directly or indirectly, that they should always act on their sexual urges and give them the means to do so thoughtlessly, the more we tell them the lie that there won't be any physical, emotional, or psychological consequences.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

That's one of the weakest arguements during this whole discussion and its like saying violent movies or video games are the reason why some unhinged kid shoots up a school.  Teenagers are going to have sex and the availability of this pill isn't to blame for them having unprotected sex.  Punishing horny teenagers shouldn't involve making them go through with a pregnancy because no matter how much you teach them just like tin said some will still make poor choices.      

[Angels Never Die]

So popping a pill to get rid of a headache should require the same level of thought as popping a pill to get rid of the possibility of pregnancy.

 

Even if you are pro-choice and you don't believe life begins until a child is born, you have to appreciate the weight of a decision to have unprotected sex as a minor and the consequences that come with that. Rape is a different story. I'm talking about consensual sex between minors without contraception. Should we be saying, "Just go for it, and you can pop a pill in the morning as if what you did has no consequences."

 

Not to mention the emotional impact sex has on a person, particularly a young person. It's not a purely physical act like eating and drinking. The more we teach kids, directly or indirectly, that they should always act on their sexual urges and give them the means to do so thoughtlessly, the more we tell them the lie that there won't be any physical, emotional, or psychological consequences.  

 

Um how does making birth control like this more easily available say that exactly?