Baseball America 2021 Farm System Rankings

[tdawg87]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

It's been ten years -- which one of you guys made this?

Don't we have a guy here from Kansas?

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Don't we have a guy here from Kansas?

If he sees this ..  not anymore.

[T.G.]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

If he sees this ..  not anymore.

That explains @WeatherWonk's disappearance.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Anyone who was here, who remembers the dipoto years, and defends him today.... lol

A lot of us fell for it at the time. But its pretty crystal clear now.

Im sure theres some moreno blame. Im sure he drove pujols and hamilton. So you cant blame that sorely on dipoto. 

But his drafts were horrible. And he added to that problem with the no quality offers.

And whatever success he has with seattle, hes been there for years and years now.... you trade away value, and draft high, after some years of course youll look better.

 

 

Hashtag baldoquin alone.

@mtangelsfan  I need a hug.

[BTH]

It would be interesting to see what would've happened had Dipoto not resigned in 2015. He dug himself into that prospect hole and then dipped. We never saw how he was going to climb out of that hole.

[Stradling]

Just now, Trendon said:

It would be interesting to see what would've happened had Dipoto not resigned in 2015. He dug himself into that prospect hole and then dipped. We never saw how he was going to climb out of that hole.

Well he never proved he could draft while with us.  He had no one to trade.  So the end result would have been more free agency or termination or most likely, both.

[failos]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Understanding why the rankings are what they are helps.  BBA doesnt count Adell as a prospect so that likely knocked them down a bit but they seem to be putting a lot more weight into proximity these days -- unless it's the Yankees or someone paid 3 mil to sign them internationally.   As Keith Law pointed out in his rankings if it was based simply on talent and tools the Angels might be a top 10 farm system.

The other big thing..  the Angels MLB roster isn't devoid of talent .... even better they will finally be rid of one of Dipoto's gifts this coming winter.

Excellent points. I appreciate the clarification.

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

It would be interesting to see what would've happened had Dipoto not resigned in 2015. He dug himself into that prospect hole and then dipped. We never saw how he was going to climb out of that hole.

He would have done it masterfully like in Seattle. 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

@mtangelsfan  I need a hug.

where the hell were you when this was going down?  

[Angel Oracle]

It’s ironic that the “epic” 2011 off-season only led to a 3 wins improvement in 2012.

[Docwaukee]

37 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It’s ironic that the “epic” 2011 off-season only led to a 3 wins improvement in 2012.

that dog shit pen cost us a division title.  

[Taylor]

5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Don't we have a guy here from Kansas?

It would be excellent if @Kotchman was the guy in the video.

[Angels in 2030]

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

that dog shit pen cost us a division title.  

Yep, especially seeing Frieri go from dominance through July to Gas Can Frieri for the rest of the season, especially the early August extra innings game in Texas and the blown 2-0 9th inning lead save in KC late in the season.

Forget that his WHIP was around 1.00 from August on.   He gave up SIX HRs in 22 innings over that same time.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Kotchman]

On 2/11/2021 at 9:01 PM, Taylor said:

It would be excellent if @Kotchman was the guy in the video.

The California and Jayhawks flags indicate that this isn't me. I will speculate there is another more colorful flag just outside our view.

[Taylor]

Just now, Kotchman said:

The California and Jayhawks flags indicate that this isn't me. I will speculate there is another more colorful flag just outside our view.

[tdawg87]

7 hours ago, Kotchman said:

The California and Jayhawks flags indicate that this isn't me. I will speculate there is another more colorful flag just outside our view.

Are you saying it's @cals?

 

[Blarg]

There was no minor league play last season. I would think ranking players you never saw make advancements would be difficult to determine their value. I think a mid season prospect report may be a little more relevant. 

[Angelsjunky]

Just a small nitpick, @Inside Pitch: Dipoto became the Mariners GM in September of 2015, so that was about five and a half years ago, not seven, and thus he has presided over the team for only five seasons.

And to be fair to Dipoto, in hindsight his approach in Seattle wasn't as terrible as it looked early on when he traded away a bunch of prospects to make a push for the postseason his first year. While he ultimately fell short, the team did finish 2nd. And then he went about turning over the team in a rebuilding project. It is too early to judge him on that, but certainly having a very strong farm system is a good thing.

I don't think we can say whether Dipoto or Eppler has done a better job over the last five years. Neither GM got their team to the postseason, but both rebuilt the farm system to varying degrees. In other words, the jury is still out, although one GM kept his job and the other didn't.

 

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Just a small nitpick, @Inside Pitch: Dipoto became the Mariners GM in September of 2015, so that was about five and a half years ago, not seven, and thus he has presided over the team for only five seasons.

Sure, thats fair...

But since the the wins projection is for entirety of the 2021 season I was using that as the figure..  So, let's say it's 6-6.5 years and it still changes absolutely nothing. He hasn't turned them into anything yet and barring some amazing breakouts they are set to finish below .500.  

More importantly.  They could win the WS this coming season and his tenure as the GM of the Angels will still have to be looked at as a complete failure.   He took over a playoff ready team in need of RPs and got them there all of once while decimating it's depth

Here is what he inherited in Anaheim vs what he left Eppler  (bolded names were his additions)

C  Jeff Mathis                            Carlos Perez
1B Mark Trumbo                        Albert Pujols
2B Howie Kendrick                    Johnny Giovotella
SS Erick Aybar                           Erick Aybar expiring contract
3B Alberto Callasp                    No 3B
RF Torii Hunter                           Cole Calhoun
CF Peter Bourjos                        Mike Trout
LF Poison Wells                          No LF
DH Abreu/K Morales                  CJ Cron
UT Mighty Macier                      Taylor "Baby Jeets" Feartherston
SP Jered Weaver                       Garret Richards
SP Dan Haren                            Jered Weaver 
SP Ervin Santana                       Matt Shoemaker
SP Tyler Chatwood                    Tyler Skaggs
SP Jerome Williams                   Andrew Heaney
RP Jordan Walden                     Huston Street
RP Scott Downs                         Jose Alvarez
RP Kevin Jepsen                        Cam Bedrosian
RP Garret Richards                    Fernando Salas
                                                               CJ Wilson -- did not play a single game for Eppler

Notable Minor Leaguers

Mike Trout                                 Sean Newcomb
Jean Segura                              David Fletcher
Cole Calhoun                            Jared Walsh
Hank Conger                             Taylor Ward
Randall Grichuk                         Kyle Kubitza
CJ Cron                                     Jam Jones
Alexi Amarista                           Roberto Baldoquin
Andrew Romine                         Nate Smith
Matt Shoemaker                       Key Middleton
Mike Clevinger                          Jeremy Rhodes
Cam Bedrosian                          Chris Ellis
AJ Schugel                                Jake Jewell
Caleb Cowart                            Michael Hermosillo

The only places you can say he left improvements over what he got was at the back end of the rotation (Skaggs and Heaney) and the only established player he brought in worth considering is David Fletcher.   Give him credit for Sean Newcomb and the 5 years of Andrelton Simmons Eppler turned him into and it's still pales in comparison with the wealth of talent he was handed and did NOTHING with.   Comparing the farm systems which is what this particular thread was aiming for is laughably awful.   His drafts and development resulted in all of one player who at this point is essentially the IF version of what Cole Calhoun looked to be early in his career.

I know you're not saying he did a good job or anything, but your quibble does absolutely nothing to ding the overarching theme of mine.  The guy left a fucking dumpster fire  behind in his wake and people need to stop pretending anything he does in Seattle will change that.

The overblown narrative that it was all Arte's fault or Scioscia's fault falls apart when one reads stories like the one from ESPN detailing Dipoto's involvement in signing AP.  I'm not going to dig it up and post it again because it obviously doesn't ever register with people and partially because everyone who's held the position since 2003 has had to deal with the same guy and yet two of four GMs left the place in better shape than they found it.

[Inside Pitch]

BTW -- Jerry trading Romine for Alvarez was in retrospect one of his very best trades and he deserves credit for that one.  I tend to forget about that but it was a goodie.

[Angelsjunky]

You don't have to convince me what a shambles Dipoto left the org in - and I agree that it wasn't only Arte and Scioscia meddling. I was only saying that there's not enough data (yet) to say whether he has done a better or worse job with the Mariners than Eppler with the Angels.

To be fair to all of them, while in hindsight we can say that the Angels should have rebuilt after the winning streak ended in 2010, at the time it kind of makes sense why they'd just retool: 80 wins in 2010 became 86 in 2011 and then 89 in 2012. After 2012, the Angels had a young superstar and the hopes that Pujols would return to form. But 2013 was a real joke, with the Hamilton-Blanton-Hanson acquisitions. But then they had their best year in half a decade in 2014, and there was no reason not to think that they couldn't continue as a 90+ win team. But then the pitching disasters hit in full force, Pujols completely collapsed, etc...

Maybe the Angels org is like the old Star Trek movies: alternating good even numbers with bad odd numbers. the 80s were pretty good, the 90s awful, the 00s the best decade, the 10s pretty bad (aside from Trout). So good times ahead?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[Blarg]

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Sure, thats fair...

But since the the wins projection is for entirety of the 2021 season I was using that as the figure..  So, let's say it's 6-6.5 years and it still changes absolutely nothing. He hasn't turned them into anything yet and barring some amazing breakouts they are set to finish below .500.  

More importantly.  They could win the WS this coming season and his tenure as the GM of the Angels will still have to be looked at as a complete failure.   He took over a playoff ready team in need of RPs and got them there all of once while decimating it's depth

Here is what he inherited in Anaheim vs what he left Eppler  (bolded names were his additions)

C  Jeff Mathis                            Carlos Perez
1B Mark Trumbo                        Albert Pujols
2B Howie Kendrick                    Johnny Giovotella
SS Erick Aybar                           Erick Aybar expiring contract
3B Alberto Callasp                    No 3B
RF Torii Hunter                           Cole Calhoun
CF Peter Bourjos                        Mike Trout
LF Poison Wells                          No LF
DH Abreu/K Morales                  CJ Cron
UT Mighty Macier                      Taylor "Baby Jeets" Feartherston
SP Jered Weaver                       Garret Richards
SP Dan Haren                            Jered Weaver 
SP Ervin Santana                       Matt Shoemaker
SP Tyler Chatwood                    Tyler Skaggs
SP Jerome Williams                   Andrew Heaney
RP Jordan Walden                     Huston Street
RP Scott Downs                         Jose Alvarez
RP Kevin Jepsen                        Cam Bedrosian
RP Garret Richards                    Fernando Salas
                                                               CJ Wilson -- did not play a single game for Eppler

Notable Minor Leaguers

Mike Trout                                 Sean Newcomb
Jean Segura                              David Fletcher
Cole Calhoun                            Jared Walsh
Hank Conger                             Taylor Ward
Randall Grichuk                         Kyle Kubitza
CJ Cron                                     Jam Jones
Alexi Amarista                           Roberto Baldoquin
Andrew Romine                         Nate Smith
Matt Shoemaker                       Key Middleton
Mike Clevinger                          Jeremy Rhodes
Cam Bedrosian                          Chris Ellis
AJ Schugel                                Jake Jewell
Caleb Cowart                            Michael Hermosillo

The only places you can say he left improvements over what he got was at the back end of the rotation (Skaggs and Heaney) and the only established player he brought in worth considering is David Fletcher.   Give him credit for Sean Newcomb and the 5 years of Andrelton Simmons Eppler turned him into and it's still pales in comparison with the wealth of talent he was handed and did NOTHING with.   Comparing the farm systems which is what this particular thread was aiming for is laughably awful.   His drafts and development resulted in all of one player who at this point is essentially the IF version of what Cole Calhoun looked to be early in his career.

I know you're not saying he did a good job or anything, but your quibble does absolutely nothing to ding the overarching theme of mine.  The guy left a fucking dumpster fire  behind in his wake and people need to stop pretending anything he does in Seattle will change that.

The overblown narrative that it was all Arte's fault or Scioscia's fault falls apart when one reads stories like the one from ESPN detailing Dipoto's involvement in signing AP.  I'm not going to dig it up and post it again because it obviously doesn't ever register with people and partially because everyone who's held the position since 2003 has had to deal with the same guy and yet two of four GMs left the place in better shape than they found it.

Great post, and a ton of great info

 

 

 

 

I forgot all about clevinger..... makes you want to throw up diarrhea 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

You don't have to convince me what a shambles Dipoto left the org in - and I agree that it wasn't only Arte and Scioscia meddling. I was only saying that there's not enough data (yet) to say whether he has done a better or worse job with the Mariners than Eppler with the Angels.

To be fair to all of them, while in hindsight we can say that the Angels should have rebuilt after the winning streak ended in 2010, at the time it kind of makes sense why they'd just retool: 80 wins in 2010 became 86 in 2011 and then 89 in 2012. After 2012, the Angels had a young superstar and the hopes that Pujols would return to form. But 2013 was a real joke, with the Hamilton-Blanton-Hanson acquisitions. But then they had their best year in half a decade in 2014, and there was no reason not to think that they couldn't continue as a 90+ win team. But then the pitching disasters hit in full force, Pujols completely collapsed, etc...

Maybe the Angels org is like the old Star Trek movies: alternating good even numbers with bad odd numbers. the 80s were pretty good, the 90s awful, the 00s the best decade, the 10s pretty bad (aside from Trout). So good times ahead?

https://www.google.com/search?q=larry+crowbe+star+trek&oq=larry+crowbe+star+trek&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6613j1j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ac000d24,vid:JE6HwWGYLZ8,st:0