Trumped

[fan_since79]

15 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, most “illegal” immigrants are illegal because their visa’s have expired.  So they came in legally.  It’s all bullshit. 

I think the current problem, or "crisis" if you will, is the huge numbers of people coming here in caravans. The people already here with expired visas is another matter.

We also have the situation of those thousands of adults and young children who were given court dates for their asylum requests and never showed up for their hearings. Who knows where they are at the moment?

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, yk9001 said:

The instrument has yet to be invented that can measure my lack of give-a-shit in trying to discern the motives of a clearly mentally unstable person. 

Still avoiding. Understandable.

But yeah, the consequences of determining the motives of the mentally unstable becomes quite measurable when the person in question has control of the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. 

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

You don't think making a big step to solving the immigration problem scores them points?

Ok then...

Not when making promises is so much easier and just as effective in gaining votes. If a voter considers this issue important, who else is exactly an option to vote for?

[Make Angels Great Again]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Not when making promises is so much easier and just as effective in gaining votes.

 

That tap runs dry eventually. it's not a viable long term strategy.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

24 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, most “illegal” immigrants are illegal because their visa’s have expired.  So they came in legally.  It’s all bullshit. 

Honest question, where do you get most from? 

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

A 2006 PEW report said as much as 45% were on expired visas while a 2017 study said as of 2014 42% were on expired visas.  If you want to get technical it's close to half but to me simply saying most makes it sound like a large majority.  Also even if you come in legally if you overstay your visa then you're technically no longer here legally.  I've worked with quite a few people and have a cousin who followed the letter of the law and ended up having to leave the country.  I realize the immigration process needs work but I'd wager that a majority of the people who overstay visas aren't trying to go through the immigration process.    

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

That tap runs dry eventually. it's not a viable long term strategy.

Citation? Seems to be working for both parties pretty damn well. <cough> gun control <cough>

[Make Angels Great Again]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Citation? Seems to be working for both parties pretty damn well. <cough> gun control <cough>

 

Gun control hasn't exactly been totally fruitless.

You don't think people notice when things are or are not getting achieved?

[Thomas]

Just now, Make Angels Great Again said:

Gun control hasn't exactly been totally fruitless.

You don't think people notice when things are or are not getting achieved?

Judging by the incumbent reelection rate, no.

[Taylor]

7 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Gun control hasn't exactly been totally fruitless.

You don't think people notice when things are or are not getting achieved?

People have short attention spans. They get riled up about something and then move on to the next thing.

[mtangelsfan]

54 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Shutdown bill? I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you talking about the CR that made its way to Trump which he veto'd, which is why the government is where it is?

I'm talking about the very first thing the House passed.  Do you believe they honestly think it will get past Trump and the Senate?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I think a scary number of people don't notice when things aren't getting achieved.  With social media as a whole we've become more fickle than ever.  There's a new cause each week that people are championing, shootings happen and a month or so later people have forgotten or just don't think about it and the list goes on.  Illegal immigration has been an "issue" for 3+ decades but nothing has really been done and both sides only care or act like they care when it fits their agenda.   

[Make Angels Great Again]

12 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Judging by the incumbent reelection rate, no.

 

People notice.

They get re-elected because the other guy is often worse than what they have.

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

People notice.

They get re-elected because the other guy is often worse than what they have.

Sure in the general, but you'd think they would be ousted in the primaries.

[Make Angels Great Again]

16 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Sure in the general, but you'd think they would be ousted in the primaries.

In an ideal world, you would think so.

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country." Barack Obama, 2005

“I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders." Hillary Clinton, 2015

“Illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple… People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the U.S. legally.” Chuck Schumer, 2009

 

So they are against illegal immigration. K where is the part that they are for the wall? I see barrier mentioned which we have just 700 miles of because both sides compromised on issues in 2006.

Also do we tear down something that cost billions of dollars and replace it with something possibly just as ineffective for billions of dollars?

Lastly, I don’t know how genuine the dems are on the quotes above but you do realize that some people on both sides are for border security but against a wall? You don’t have to live in a dichotomous world.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Honest question, where do you get most from? 

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

A 2006 PEW report said as much as 45% were on expired visas while a 2017 study said as of 2014 42% were on expired visas.  If you want to get technical it's close to half but to me simply saying most makes it sound like a large majority.  Also even if you come in legally if you overstay your visa then you're technically no longer here legally.  I've worked with quite a few people and have a cousin who followed the letter of the law and ended up having to leave the country.  I realize the immigration process needs work but I'd wager that a majority of the people who overstay visas aren't trying to go through the immigration process.    

I’ve read that double the number of people who were illegally in the country were here on expired visas.  vs.  those at the border.  It may be people arrested at the border.  Which I suppose wouldn’t be an exact comparison.  But still, with illegal immigration at the border objectively on the decline, it would seem to me that the “wall” isn’t a serious way to tackle the problem if you’re actually concerned with addressing it.  I’m sure you’re spot on that people apply for visas and have no intention of pursuing the process as it’s intended.  That’s a different problem and a different discussion though. 

Anyway here’s a link to the story I read. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/despite-trumps-claims-most-illegal-immigration-is-not-at-the-southern-border.html

Edited January 9, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

I think the current problem, or "crisis" if you will, is the huge numbers of people coming here in caravans. The people already here with expired visas is another matter.

We also have the situation of those thousands of adults and young children who were given court dates for their asylum requests and never showed up for their hearings. Who knows where they are at the moment?

I think the caravan issue is even more of an imaginary problem then the need for a wall. 

But sure I agree with you that there’s an issue with people attending their hearing etc.  I would say that part of the issue is that the process is so convoluted and stupid that it encourages people to evade the system.  Especially with the current administration being hostile to immigration generally.  Even legal immigration.  That’s still wrong, but it is what it is. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Adam]

I love illegals! Come one come all. Except for the dicks. Let’s figure out how to stop the dicks from coming. 

[Spirit]

5 minutes ago, Adam said:

I love illegals! Come one come all. Except for the dicks. Let’s figure out how to stop the dicks from coming. 

 

And the balls.

 

 

[Lou]

3 hours ago, yk9001 said:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-obama-2005-immigration-quote/

 

3 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Did you research these all yourself, of did it come from a fwd:fwd:?  

 

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

It says the quote is accurate.

 

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

I am not in favor of a wall.  I think your comprehension is the issue.

 

 

   TRUE!

[Lou]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, most “illegal” immigrants are illegal because their visa’s have expired.  So they came in legally.  It’s all bullshit. 

all criminals are law abiding people until they break the law. 

[Crampknees]

I got paid back for being mean to Lou and Blarg.  Watching a friends dog and cleaning out some memorabilia and had a new case to put a ball in, either 77 or 78 got Grich, Rudi and Tanana to sign at Fenway and when he came to get his dog there was only twine left. 

[Lou]

you've been mean to me? fine, I'm finishing the Fireball without you 

[Thomas]

Not new or anything but I missed it (or forgotten about it) the first time around.

What the fresh hell. This is REAL. Filmed in 1958- about a conman who grifts a small town of suckers into building a wall. History not subtle enough for you? GUESS THE GRIFTER'S NAME
(And watch until the end) pic.twitter.com/6FA3p6KC00

— Alex Hirsch (@_AlexHirsch) January 9, 2019

[Crampknees]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

you've been mean to me? fine, I'm finishing the Fireball without you 

Save me some.