Kyle Hendricks

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Exactly.  Start with Adell and add from there...Not going to happen.

Same with Hendricks, really.  His deal is very, very reasonable ($70M over the next 5 years, including the option/vesting year). 

I am not saying I disagree but I will note that one of the obvious problems with the Angels right now is the unwillingness to pay the actual market value for the players they need.

The Angels need top half of the rotation pitching.  The idea of getting a sweet deal instead of paying the market price is getting in the way of success.

 

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not saying I disagree but I will note that one of the obvious problems with the Angels right now is the unwillingness to pay the actual market value for the players they need.

The Angels need top half of the rotation pitching.  The idea of getting a sweet deal instead of paying the market price is getting in the way of success.

 

i dont think thats fair, not at this point, we were willing to go nearly 300M for this guy, only the Yankees disposal income adding a 9th beat us.   Im OK with that myself. 

[Dtwncbad]

9 minutes ago, floplag said:

To me this is exactly what we dont need to do. 

I get it, many here want that ace, but gutting the farm to get it makes little sense in the big picture.  

Actually trading prospects to get an “ace” with multiple years of control makes the most sense IN THE BIG PICTURE.

The big picture is the Angels can purchase premium offense right now with Rendon, but premium pitching is now not for sale with money.

The big picture is wins and losses in 2020 matters.

The big picture is we would all be really excited if the Angels top prospect was a young stud pitcher instead of Adell.

I love Adell.  But not more than getting what the team needs to actually win.

The big picture is winning with the major league roster.

Of course don’t burn Adell in a deal to get a past “ace” on the downside with one or two years of control.  Duh.

But if we want to face reality now, Adell in the right trade for the right pitcher might be the right move, again mentioning that the Angels can simply purchase the offense to replace Adells bat by landing Rendon.

 

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

i dont think thats fair, not at this point, we were willing to go nearly 300M for this guy, only the Yankees disposal income adding a 9th beat us.   Im OK with that myself. 

It’s not a matter of fair or not.  Is it “fair” that the Yankees just blew everyone away?  No.  But it’s the reality.

The reality is the Angels were not willing to do that.  If the Angels are also not willing to trade what they need to trade to get what they need, then the team will continue to flounder.

Maybe things would be different if the Angels had some seriously protectable minor league pitchers.  They don’t.

At this point they have a few very valuable trade pieces and lots of money to spend.

So buy what is still for sale (offense) and trade for the pitching you need.

But fans freak out over trading Adell.  We should freak out if they trade him in a bad deal.  We should not freak out if they trade him in the right deal.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Actually trading prospects to get an “ace” with multiple years of control makes the most sense IN THE BIG PICTURE.

The big picture is the Angels can purchase premium offense right now with Rendon, but premium pitching is now not for sale with money.

The big picture is wins and losses in 2020 matters.

The big picture is we would all be really excited if the Angels top prospect was a young stud pitcher instead of Adell.

I love Adell.  But not more than getting what the team needs to actually win.

The big picture is winning with the major league roster.

Of course don’t burn Adell in a deal to get a past “ace” on the downside with one or two years of control.  Duh.

But if we want to face reality now, Adell in the right trade for the right pitcher might be the right move, again mentioning that the Angels can simply purchase the offense to replace Adells bat by landing Rendon.

 

ok and how does giving up very good prospects for Kyle Hendricks get us an ace?

[Dick B Back]

Crap, I thought this was the Kendrick thread...

[Dtwncbad]

14 minutes ago, Stradling said:

ok and how does giving up very good prospects for Kyle Hendricks get us an ace?

You are nuts if you think Hendricks is not worth “very good prospects.”

Again Angel fan expecting to get a high quality major league player under control for something less than “very good prospects.”

Hey go ahead and pitch Ward and Hermosillo for Hendricks.  

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

You are nuts if you think Hendricks is not worth “very good prospects.”

Again Angel fan expecting to get a high quality major league player under control for something less than “very good prospects.”

Hey go ahead and pitch Ward and Hermosillo for Hendricks.  

If they give us Contreras, too, I'd be ok with that.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, CanadianHalo said:

Any idea why Kluber stunk at the beginning of last year before getting hurt? 

Because he plays baseball and weird stuff like that happens

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You are nuts if you think Hendricks is not worth “very good prospects.”

Again Angel fan expecting to get a high quality major league player under control for something less than “very good prospects.”

Hey go ahead and pitch Ward and Hermosillo for Hendricks.  

He very well could be worth very good prospects, but giving up very good prospects for Hendricks still doesn't give us an ace.  I am not expecting to underpay for an Ace, I just don't see the value in giving up the prospects we do have to get a #2-3 starter when we need to use those to get an Ace.  So now tell me what I am thinking again so we can go round and round about things I am not thinking, it will be cool.

[Stradling]

Here is something I am thinking @Dtwncbad, I'd much rather give up prospect capital to get Hendricks than someone like Ray or Boyd.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I rather go after Darvish, he a 3 aswell, but if he discovered something in the 2nd hald, he could be a 2. Plus you could get another piece along with him if we eat about 79-80% of his Salary. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He very well could be worth very good prospects, but giving up very good prospects for Hendricks still doesn't give us an ace.  I am not expecting to underpay for an Ace, I just don't see the value in giving up the prospects we do have to get a #2-3 starter when we need to use those to get an Ace.  So now tell me what I am thinking again so we can go round and round about things I am not thinking, it will be cool.

I said you are nuts “IF”

That is the correct way to be clear that I am not telling you what you are thinking, but rather saying I may not know what you are actually thinking.

[hangin n wangin]

If this team goes out and trades good prospects for Boyd, yea, I'll start to lose my shit.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Yeah i would stay away from acquiring Byod. Rather spend those prospects on Thor, Stroman and Baur  

[Second Base]

I'd be all over Darvish if he were available. Pitched like an ace in the second half. But I don't think the Cubs make him available.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

It’s not a matter of fair or not.  Is it “fair” that the Yankees just blew everyone away?  No.  But it’s the reality.

The reality is the Angels were not willing to do that.  If the Angels are also not willing to trade what they need to trade to get what they need, then the team will continue to flounder.

Maybe things would be different if the Angels had some seriously protectable minor league pitchers.  They don’t.

At this point they have a few very valuable trade pieces and lots of money to spend.

So buy what is still for sale (offense) and trade for the pitching you need.

But fans freak out over trading Adell.  We should freak out if they trade him in a bad deal.  We should not freak out if they trade him in the right deal.

While i agree in principle on much of this, i do not think its fair to say we should have done what the Yankees did, literally no one, maybe the Dodgers, could do that, and even they chose not to or he might have gone there.
We would have had to one up them to make up for lack of winning culture, do you really expect him to do a 10 year deal?  I dont nor would i be happy if they did.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Actually trading prospects to get an “ace” with multiple years of control makes the most sense IN THE BIG PICTURE.

The big picture is the Angels can purchase premium offense right now with Rendon, but premium pitching is now not for sale with money.

The big picture is wins and losses in 2020 matters.

The big picture is we would all be really excited if the Angels top prospect was a young stud pitcher instead of Adell.

I love Adell.  But not more than getting what the team needs to actually win.

The big picture is winning with the major league roster.

Of course don’t burn Adell in a deal to get a past “ace” on the downside with one or two years of control.  Duh.

But if we want to face reality now, Adell in the right trade for the right pitcher might be the right move, again mentioning that the Angels can simply purchase the offense to replace Adells bat by landing Rendon.

 

While i get what you are saying, it really doesnt if it creates a gap.
I dont believe any prospect is untradable, but, if youre talking about Adell you better be talking about something more than Hendricks

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

But why trade for Bryant, when he isn't going to be cheap to acquire or to keep, plus there are other options that are free agents that have performed better?  Not to mention his grievance he has ongoing about whether he is a free agent at the end of 2020 or 2021, plus Boras. 

I'd MUCH rather sign Donaldson for 3 or 4 years, vs trading for Bryant. 

[Dtwncbad]

56 minutes ago, floplag said:

While i get what you are saying, it really doesnt if it creates a gap.
I dont believe any prospect is untradable, but, if youre talking about Adell you better be talking about something more than Hendricks

Yes of course.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

We’re starting to see the consequences of fielding a sh!t team for the last 5 years 

Starting?

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

While i agree in principle on much of this, i do not think its fair to say we should have done what the Yankees did, literally no one, maybe the Dodgers, could do that, and even they chose not to or he might have gone there.
We would have had to one up them to make up for lack of winning culture, do you really expect him to do a 10 year deal?  I dont nor would i be happy if they did.

I didn’t say the Angels should have outbid the Yankees.  I am saying let’s be honest about reality.  The Angels yielded.

That’s fine to yield on Cole and go another direction.  But It better not be because they believe they can get what they need through other channels NOT paying the real market price for what they need.

It should be because they ARE willing to do what it takes through another channel.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

I didn’t say the Angels should have outbid the Yankees.  I am saying let’s be honest about reality.  The Angels yielded.

That’s fine to yield on Cole and go another direction.  But It better not be because they believe they can get what they need through other channels NOT paying the real market price for what they need.

It should be because they ARE willing to do what it takes through another channel.

Or they simply felt they can’t put that much money at risk on one player.  

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I didn’t say the Angels should have outbid the Yankees.  I am saying let’s be honest about reality.  The Angels yielded.

That’s fine to yield on Cole and go another direction.  But It better not be because they believe they can get what they need through other channels NOT paying the real market price for what they need.

It should be because they ARE willing to do what it takes through another channel.

Maybe, maybe it became clear he was going there, maybe we were never in it save for Boras raising prices as soon as the /yanks jumped in...  that one comment was for me very telling... but again i ask, what would you have had them do?  Should thay have gone 10 years and 360M?  if thats what it would have taken, im glad they yielded.  

I think perhaps you are judging them too harshly on this one, it was legit over as soon as the Yanks got involved, that seems clear, unless we went WAY over the top which literally no one but them could have done.

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Or they simply felt they can’t put that much money at risk on one player.  

Exactly.  But pivot and execute.  It’s not time to get cute.

Don’t be stupid but be committed.

I am just saying there is overall value in getting what you need.  When you have a possible best in show 57 Chevy, and you just need the paint done, then you pay what you need to pay for the paint job you need.

The pitching the team needs is no longer available in free agency.  So this team better have open ears on the trade market and be willing to make a deal.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Dtwncbad