ESPN+ Headline....

[DMVol]

Greinke to the Angels?....I don't have a subscription....anybody with a subscription let us know what it says.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/

[Broad Street]

It’s a hypothetical. I don’t think we’re getting anyone this year

[Second Base]

If the Angels are going to get Greinke, then I'd recommend making it a one stop shop and acquire Robbie Ray to go along with him.  With our offense and bullpen, having a 2020 rotation of Greinke, Ohtani, Ray, Canning and Heaney would result in a playoff spot. 

[Pancake Bear]

My only problem with Greinke is that probably takes us out of the running with Cole. I know he’s not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination, but I would guess our likelihood of pursuing him is really low if we get Greinke due to the money. Unless Arte just decides to go all in, I can’t see him paying big money for both Greinke and Cole. It isn’t impossible, but there’s no evidence he’s willing to spend at that level yet n

[mulwin444]

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If the Angels are going to get Greinke, then I'd recommend making it a one stop shop and acquire Robbie Ray to go along with him.  With our offense and bullpen, having a 2020 rotation of Greinke, Ohtani, Ray, Canning and Heaney would result in a playoff spot. 

My thoughts as well...the one hiccup is we are part of Greinke's blocked teams on his Limited No Trade Clause list so he would have to OK any deal.  

[Claude]

Greinke has already said that he doesn’t want to play anywhere else. He likes playing for the Diamondbacks. He also says he doesn’t like spring training. It’s too long and too boring. 

[Angel Oracle]

Would Arte dare to acquire Greinke and Ray AND sign Cole.    Ray is only through 2020 and Greinke is through 2021.

The budget and the tax threshold are passed for 2020 and 2021 only.

Cole, Greinke, Ray, Ohtani, Canning, and Heaney would be a stout 1-6, with Suarez, Pena, Barria, and Sandoval (whichever ones not dealt in a Greinke/Ray trade) in waiting.     

Ohtani, Canning, and Heaney would then not have so much pressure put on them to reach 160 innings in 2020.     

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Would Arte dare to acquire Greinke and Ray AND sign Cole.    Ray is only through 2020 and Greinke is through 2021.

The budget and the tax threshold are passed for 2020 and 2021 only.

Cole, Greinke, Ray, Ohtani, Canning, and Heaney would be a stout 1-6, with Suarez, Pena, Barria, and Sandoval (whichever ones not dealt in a Greinke/Ray trade) in waiting.     

Ohtani, Canning, and Heaney would then not have so much pressure put on them to reach 160 innings in 2020.     

Who knows. In all honesty, im not getting my hopes up for any of them.

That said, I absolutely think Moreno would greenlight the money, if it was the right move. If say we actually did get grienke (which i doubt, that sounds more like the speculating we do here vs what is actually being discussed), i doubt the angels would balk at cole, if he were available and they had a shot.

In short, if they truly are interested in Cole, they wouldnt look at it like "nevermind, we have zach grienke for 2 more years".

[Hubs]

17 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

My only problem with Greinke is that probably takes us out of the running with Cole. I know he’s not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination, but I would guess our likelihood of pursuing him is really low if we get Greinke due to the money. Unless Arte just decides to go all in, I can’t see him paying big money for both Greinke and Cole. It isn’t impossible, but there’s no evidence he’s willing to spend at that level yet n

It doesn't if they a) Don't exercise Kole's option, b) non-tender Bour, Ramirez, Garcia, Tropeano c) get the D'backs to eat say $7M current salary and $3M of deferred money and d) go over the Luxury Tax.

Next Year's Payroll is listed as 116 before 13 Arbitration cases, one of which is no longer with the team (Puello), so it's 12. I'd bring back 8 of those guys for a total of around $30-$35..plus 5 guys are under multi-year contracts (Pujols, Simmons, Trout, Upton, Cozart) That puts the payroll for 13 guys at say $150 M. Add the minimum guys for another $7M. That's $157 M in Real Payroll.

Greinke costs $35. But $11 is deferred. Having the D'backs eat say $7M of the real salary and 3M of the deferred drops his payroll down to $25, of which 7M is deferred. So he'd only be on the books for around $18.

That's say $175, and they can then offer Cole a big contract that's not extremely front loaded, but say less money average in his first two years, while Pujols is still on the books.

The Luxury Tax is right around the same, because actual salary being $15M more than Luxury Tax payroll, the benefits paid eat that up.

They can fit Greinke in and still pursue Cole or Bumgarner or someone else via trade.

 

 

 

 

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, Hubs said:

It doesn't if they a) Don't exercise Kole's option, b) non-tender Bour, Ramirez, Garcia, Tropeano c) get the D'backs to eat say $7M current salary and $3M of deferred money and d) go over the Luxury Tax.

Next Year's Payroll is listed as 116 before 13 Arbitration cases, one of which is no longer with the team (Puello), so it's 12. I'd bring back 8 of those guys for a total of around $30-$35..plus 5 guys are under multi-year contracts (Pujols, Simmons, Trout, Upton, Cozart) That puts the payroll for 13 guys at say $150 M. Add the minimum guys for another $7M. That's $157 M in Real Payroll.

Greinke costs $35. But $11 is deferred. Having the D'backs eat say $7M of the real salary and 3M of the deferred drops his payroll down to $25, of which 7M is deferred. So he'd only be on the books for around $18.

That's say $175, and they can then offer Cole a big contract that's not extremely front loaded, but say less money average in his first two years, while Pujols is still on the books.

The Luxury Tax is right around the same, because actual salary being $15M more than Luxury Tax payroll, the benefits paid eat that up.

They can fit Greinke in and still pursue Cole or Bumgarner or someone else via trade.

 

 

 

 

What about the deferred $62 mil Greinke is owed post contract? I’m assuming whoever trades for him is responsible for that. Yearly, sure, we could probably make it work. But add in an extra sixty million bucks, and I just don’t see Arte as favorable to that unless Arizona covers a lot. 

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

What about the deferred $62 mil Greinke is owed post contract? I’m assuming whoever trades for him is responsible for that. Yearly, sure, we could probably make it work. But add in an extra sixty million bucks, and I just don’t see Arte as favorable to that unless Arizona covers a lot. 

What I heard on the radio is that the team he played for during the season of the deferred money is responsible for that money.  That obviously could be negotiated.  So if he has played there for 3 years and $10 million per season is deferred then Az would be on the hook for $30 million of the $60 million.  

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, mulwin444 said:

My thoughts as well...the one hiccup is we are part of Greinke's blocked teams on his Limited No Trade Clause list so he would have to OK any deal.  

Used as a negotiating tactic.  He specifically blocked teams that were competitive or he'd be most likely traded to because he could make additional demands for financial compensation or whatever else if he's traded to one of those teams.  I'd have done the exact same thing.  It isn't about not wanting to play for those teams, it's about leverage. 

[happybat4]

Can Greinke DH for us?

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

If the Angels are going to get Greinke, then I'd recommend making it a one stop shop and acquire Robbie Ray to go along with him.  With our offense and bullpen, having a 2020 rotation of Greinke, Ohtani, Ray, Canning and Heaney would result in a playoff spot. 

I would still like to see us get creative to make a run at Cole still. Wishful thinking... right?

[Pancake Bear]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What I heard on the radio is that the team he played for during the season of the deferred money is responsible for that money.  That obviously could be negotiated.  So if he has played there for 3 years and $10 million per season is deferred then Az would be on the hook for $30 million of the $60 million.  

Okay. I honestly dont know how it works. If that’s the case, it might be workable. 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

My only problem with Greinke is that probably takes us out of the running with Cole. I know he’s not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination, but I would guess our likelihood of pursuing him is really low if we get Greinke due to the money. Unless Arte just decides to go all in, I can’t see him paying big money for both Greinke and Cole. It isn’t impossible, but there’s no evidence he’s willing to spend at that level yet n

I think he possibly could depending on a few possible ideas:

1: Arizona needs will eat some money in the Greinke deal. How much? No idea. If they eat some then we will have a little more room.

2: Arte expands the budget for a pitcher only. Realizing Greinke and and Pujols are off the books after 2021 would free up over $60M. Arte could give it 2 years of riding close to the tax, trusting the youth, and taking a deep breath in two years. Arte has got to be tired of watching us pitch and now that he has Trout locked down, he'll think it's the right thing to do.

3: Another thing they could do that likely won't happen is include a salary dump (kind of) in the deal. Simmons could be a name thrown out there. Even though the Angels probably need his glove when thinking about a playoff run. Cozart would be a dump but he has no value, is injured, and no one wants him. 

If we acquired Greinke/Ray I still feel like Arte would open the budget more to still push for Cole. He sees Trout and he probably agrees the time in now. 

[UndertheHalo]

Greinke should be a plan B.  Plan A being Cole.  I doubt the Angels have to push the issue and get Greinke right now. 

[Second Base]

57 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I would still like to see us get creative to make a run at Cole still. Wishful thinking... right?

In Zack Greinke, the Angels would have their ace, and he really wouldn't cost much in prospect either.  In fact, he'd even be on a short contract, so if things were to go south, the Angels wouldn't be too screwed.  I don't think passing up getting Greinke under those circumstances would be worth possibly luring Cole to Anaheim.

[Hubs]

2 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

What about the deferred $62 mil Greinke is owed post contract? I’m assuming whoever trades for him is responsible for that. Yearly, sure, we could probably make it work. But add in an extra sixty million bucks, and I just don’t see Arte as favorable to that unless Arizona covers a lot. 

They would be responsible for the $22 M deferred in 2020 and 2021, and a portion of the deferred money in 2022.

The money deferred from previous seasons would definitely be Arizona's responsibility.

He's owed around $70 M for 2020 and 2021, and roughly $10M for this season. 11M in both 20 and 21 are deferred with around 3 of this year 10 deferred.

Arizona pays the deferred $3 from 2019, and $10M in each of the 2020 and 2021 seasons (half deferred)... Angels on the hook for roughly $57 M over 2.3 years, Of which, $7M is due this year, $20 is due in 2020, and 2021, with $5M payments in two deferred years way down the road.

That works for both teams for a package with some good but not great prospects.

If they tossed in Ray, or Archie Bradley or Jake Lamb, a package centered around Rengifo, Thaiss, Suarez and Adams gets it done. Probably not Marsh, but if it took Marsh, the D'Backs have to eat more money.

 

 

 

 

 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

In Zack Greinke, the Angels would have their ace, and he really wouldn't cost much in prospect either.  In fact, he'd even be on a short contract, so if things were to go south, the Angels wouldn't be too screwed.  I don't think passing up getting Greinke under those circumstances would be worth possibly luring Cole to Anaheim.

Damn you’re right. Greinke is a good deal IF AND ONLY IF Ray is involved and Adell/Marsh/Thaiss aren’t touched.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Stroman made the most sense.... sadly.