Heyman: Angels have checked in on every available starting pitcher

[Stradling]

23 minutes ago, Scott34 said:

Yan got pulled awfully early. 78 pitches and he was dealing. 

But is 78 pitches really earl at that level?  

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But is 78 pitches really earl at that level?  

It’s not at all. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

You wouldn’t want him as a third starter next year?  

Has he been anything resembling a 3rd starter since the Pirates acquired him?

More like between a #4 and #5

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

If Archer costs Marsh plus others, I am not in favor of getting him.  If you can get him for a package of Thiass and Jones along with a guy like Yan, then go for it.

I’m good with this, but won’t expect Archer to be anything above a #4 starter.   At least he’s durable.  Haven’t had that since Weave was here.

[Scott34]

28 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

This is the same BS every year. Everyone says in the beginning of the season that the next season is when they’ll compete. Then when they’re hovering around .500 at the deadline everyone wants to be buyers. Rinse and repeat. 

I really hope Eppler doesn’t do a stupid ass “win now” move like with a Upton. This team cannot be made a playoff team by trading for a SP. 

Yeah losing Grayson Long really ruined this franchise! 

 

He made one appearance for the Tigers and then retired.  

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Scott34 said:

Yeah losing Grayson Long really ruined this franchise! 

 

He made one appearance for the Tigers and then retired.  

All Vladdy does is let us know how bad things are.  It is impossible to reason with him.  Also he believes 911 was an inside job, so there is that.

[Jay]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

That mother Facker better be on the phone right now.  

I agree.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

43 minutes ago, Scott34 said:

Yeah losing Grayson Long really ruined this franchise! 

 

He made one appearance for the Tigers and then retired.  

Grayson notLongcareer

 

 

 

 

 

AO, score on that?

[Broad Street]

5 hours ago, Second Base said:

If I'm just making a metric ton of inferences, I think I can narrow down to a target or two....

1. Eppler doesn't like soft-tossers.  He likes pure, unadulterated velocity.  And he likes pitchers that throw a ton of strikes. 

2. Eppler doesn't mind paying more money if it's a shorter term deal. 

3. Eppler likes the idea of buying low. 

4. Eppler absolutely does not like trading prospects unless it's a sure thing (even going back to acquiring international funds to pay Ohtani when he dealt Pearson).  And when he does trade prospects, he tends to trade ones that either weren't his pick to begin with (less and less Dipoto selections left in the minors), or don't have as high of an upside. 

5. Eppler loves bringing in former top prospects.  He does it all the time in the minor leagues.  The reason why likely rests on upside that has since been covered up or has gone dormant that he hopes to unlock.  Adrian Rondon and Kevin Maitan come to mind, but there have been quite a few others. 

So using the above criteria, Dylan Bundy, Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris, Danny Duffy, Mike Montgomery, Noah Syndergaard, Steven Matz, any of the Marlins starting pitchers which they're telling everyone "no" on, Joe Musgrove, Chris Archer, Zack Grienke, Robbie Ray and virtually all of San Diego's pitchers become primary targets.  Now if we narrow these down even more simply using common sense, it's probably....

Dylan Bundy, Daniel Norris, Danny Duffy, Mike Montgomery, and Chris Archer. 

If we narrow it down even further, the upside ability and buying low have really been narrowed down to just Bundy (because he's 26) and Archer.  Eppler would be familiar with both of them from his time in the AL East.  But for Eppler, the last little piece of the puzzle is him targeting high quality individuals who acclimate themselves well with those around him.  

Chris Archer.....Eppler is going to trade for Chris Archer.  The salary is right in line with what he paid Cahill and Harvey.  As for what Pittsburgh will trade him for.....pitching.  They're really short on pitching prospects. You can probably get him for a pitching prospect with promise in A, A+, or AA.  The Angels won't trade Barria and Suarez in their current situation.  They would offer Patrick Sandoval and the Bucs would be interested but want more than that and likely counter with Chris Rodriguez.  But remember, Eppler and upside.  He won't want to part with Chris.  But a collection of other guys, which includes Luis Madero, Jeremy Beasley and Andrew Wantz, the Bucs would probably do that. 

So the deal will be, Chris Archer to the Angels for Luis Madero, Jeremy Beasley and Andrew Wantz. 

I’d rather have Trevor Williams and Kyle Crick

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, REDneck said:

I don't think we should use prospect capital to acquire Archer. We should bite the bullet and use a handful of prospects to acquire a legit #2....Bauer,Stroman,Madbum...and then sign Cole to be our horse!!

This scenario still gives us a fighting chance this year for a WC and should put us over the hump for 2020.

Anything much less than that and I still don't see us as a serious contender in 2020.

But..

Cole..a legit #2...Ohtani..Canning..Heaney..Suarez for 2020 is Nice!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A

Madbum wont be available, and would be a waste of prospects. SF is in the same spot we are. And hes a FA this winter.

Bauer is rad, but he says he is against signing an extension... we arent in a spot where trading for him makes sense. (We need more than him, and hed clear out our farm).

Stroman is the one that makes the most sense. I think were all hoping it happens. 

So it wont.

[Second Base]

I'm not saying I want Archer, so please don't attach that to me guys.  I'm going on record as saying I want Greinke, but I think the Angels will go after Archer.  

And to be fair, I would only be good with this if they were treating an Archer acquisition as more of a 4th or 5th starter.  Meaning spend the lower level guys I recommended to go get him (Jeremy Beasley, Luis Madero and Andrew Wantz - Two guys ranked 20-30ish and another 30-40ish in our system - All project to be quality bullpen pieces or back end of the rotation pieces, which we already have a lot of), but then go out and sign Gerrit Cole for a whole crapload of money.

Meaning I'm good with it, if our rotation next year is Cole, Ohtani, Canning, Archer and Heaney, with Felix Pena moving into extended relief and Jaime Barria, Jose Suarez and Pat Sandoval all in AAA waiting for the inevitable promotion when Heaney makes his biannual trip to the IL, and the Angels limit Ohtani and Canning's innings. 

Archer works, if he's not the main piece, but more of a complimentary piece with upside.

I still like Greinke better though.  He's an ace and doesn't cost anything in prospects if you take on that contract. 

[mmc]

2 hours ago, REDneck said:

For those more in the know what does a package of Thaiss/Ward,Barria/Suarez,Bedrosian,Jones...land us?

Shoot I would include Heaney and maybe Renigfo in a package for a legit #2.

Any combo of these guys land us a #2

 

 

No, none of those pieces have the ceiling of the prospect a team trading a #2 SP would want headlining the return. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, REDneck said:

Good points!!  

I'm not as savvy as most on this sight but I do think Eppler's window is about to open in 2020 with this core and the coming of JA.

But he needs to act!!

Two stud/quality SP in addition to Ohtani makes us a WS contender.

Anything less and were still pretty mediocre.

Epplers 5th year in 2020...he has a great core! Its time to step up with the big boys!!

 

2 things here, my dude

First, JA.... hes not here... YET.

Number 2, Ohtani. Pitcher Ohtani isnt here either....YET.

Id love for us 2 get two arms and make a run this year... but unless its pedro and clemens, we arent winning it this year...

So any move has to make sense for the next several years, not this one.

Be patient, its coming together

[Chuck]

Eppler checks in, they ask for Adelll.

[eligrba]

8 hours ago, REDneck said:

For those more in the know what does a package of Thaiss/Ward,Barria/Suarez,Bedrosian,Jones...land us?

Shoot I would include Heaney and maybe Renigfo in a package for a legit #2.

Any combo of these guys land us a #2

 

 

You are aware the Angels need pitchers.......trading pitchers for a different pitcher does not move the needle.

[angelsnationtalk]

10 hours ago, REDneck said:

I don't think we should use prospect capital to acquire Archer. We should bite the bullet and use a handful of prospects to acquire a legit #2....Bauer,Stroman,Madbum...and then sign Cole to be our horse!!

This scenario still gives us a fighting chance this year for a WC and should put us over the hump for 2020.

Anything much less than that and I still don't see us as a serious contender in 2020.

But..

Cole..a legit #2...Ohtani..Canning..Heaney..Suarez for 2020 is Nice!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A

Yeah I agree. Archer is a project hoping he’d regain early form of an era around 3.30. That may or may not happen. But I still wouldn’t give up Thaiss to hope it happens. If I were to give someone like Thaiss or even Marsh away it better be for a damn good #2 type pitcher. 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, REDneck said:

Quantity for quality. If two of the above SP names were included in a package for a legit #2 that moves the needle.

You can fill out the back end of a rotation much easier than the front end.

Right now at 8:30am we don’t know who is starting our game tonight, so apparently it isn’t that easy to fill out any part of the rotation.

[angelsnationtalk]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Madbum wont be available, and would be a waste of prospects. SF is in the same spot we are. And hes a FA this winter.

Bauer is rad, but he says he is against signing an extension... we arent in a spot where trading for him makes sense. (We need more than him, and hed clear out our farm).

Stroman is the one that makes the most sense. I think were all hoping it happens. 

So it wont.

I’m still lost as to why Cleveland would give up Bauer when they’re at the top for a wildcard spot. Why the hell would you give up your top pitcher when you’ll be in the playoffs? 

[Stradling]

Just now, angelsnationtalk said:

I’m still lost as to why Cleveland would give up Bauer when they’re at the top for a wildcard spot. Why the hell would you give up your top pitcher when you’ll be in the playoffs? 

Bauer isn’t getting traded until the off season.  

[angelsnationtalk]

9 hours ago, REDneck said:

Good points!!  

I'm not as savvy as most on this sight but I do think Eppler's window is about to open in 2020 with this core and the coming of JA.

But he needs to act!!

Two stud/quality SP in addition to Ohtani makes us a WS contender.

Anything less and were still pretty mediocre.

Epplers 5th year in 2020...he has a great core! Its time to step up with the big boys!!

 

I wouldn’t say WS contender but damn will we look much better. If Eppler can pull off a trade where he lands a solid #2 guy and is able to sign someone like Cole in the offseason then suddenly we have a pretty deep rotation. I think now that he’s checked in with other teams he could be working on a package, but I don’t think he’s working on a package to dump high end prospects. He’s smart with prospects.

[angelsnationtalk]

9 hours ago, Second Base said:

I'm not saying I want Archer, so please don't attach that to me guys.  I'm going on record as saying I want Greinke, but I think the Angels will go after Archer.  

And to be fair, I would only be good with this if they were treating an Archer acquisition as more of a 4th or 5th starter.  Meaning spend the lower level guys I recommended to go get him (Jeremy Beasley, Luis Madero and Andrew Wantz - Two guys ranked 20-30ish and another 30-40ish in our system - All project to be quality bullpen pieces or back end of the rotation pieces, which we already have a lot of), but then go out and sign Gerrit Cole for a whole crapload of money.

Meaning I'm good with it, if our rotation next year is Cole, Ohtani, Canning, Archer and Heaney, with Felix Pena moving into extended relief and Jaime Barria, Jose Suarez and Pat Sandoval all in AAA waiting for the inevitable promotion when Heaney makes his biannual trip to the IL, and the Angels limit Ohtani and Canning's innings. 

Archer works, if he's not the main piece, but more of a complimentary piece with upside.

I still like Greinke better though.  He's an ace and doesn't cost anything in prospects if you take on that contract. 

Love the idea. My question to you (cuz I’m to lazy to look) is how much money/years are left on Greinke’s contract, what will he cost in terms of prospects, AND most importantly, will we still be able to spend a crapload of money for Cole in the offseason if we got Greinke??

[angelsnationtalk]

17 minutes ago, REDneck said:

Quantity for quality. If two of the above SP names were included in a package for a legit #2 that moves the needle.

You can fill out the back end of a rotation much easier than the front end.

Honestly all those guys gets us a #2 guy, BUT that’s too much. I could understand trading Barria cuz down the line who knows, but not Suarez. He’s part of the future plan. Those names would likely be swapped out by the name of Brandon Marsh. Even then, Thaiss, Jones, Barria, and someone like Hector Yan may or may not get you there.

[Second Base]

21 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Love the idea. My question to you (cuz I’m to lazy to look) is how much money/years are left on Greinke’s contract, what will he cost in terms of prospects, AND most importantly, will we still be able to spend a crapload of money for Cole in the offseason if we got Greinke??

Greinke has 2/70 left. If the Angels cut Calhoun loose they're looking at 54 million off the books and probably 7-ish million more in arbitration, which means they could spend around 47 million before matching this year's payroll. So if the Angels took on 35 million a year with Greinke, they couldn't afford Cole, not without increasing payroll around 15 million for a year or two. They would still be under the luxury tax though, so no penalty.

Archer costs 9 million next year and has an 11 million option the year after that. So what they could do is Archer and Greinke. Or Archer and Cole. But unless Arte is willing to make a short term investment but going past previous limits for two years, Greinke and Cole together aren't an option....

Unless one of two things occur. 

1. The Angels get the D-Backs to eat some money in a Greinke trade, but that would require the Angels to pay much more in terms of prospects.

2. They sign Cole to a heavily backloaded contact. Like if he signs for 6/150 like I think he will, only pay him 15 million the first couple of years and 35 million the last couple.

But if that happens, you're looking at a rotation fronted by Cole, Greinke, Ohtani.... That in the playoffs combined with the Angels offense would scare the crap out of every team in baseball, like the Astros three past couple years, Red Sox or the Dodgers. They would be an upper echelon team.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Second Base

[Angel Oracle]

11 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Grayson notLongcareer

 

 

 

 

 

AO, score on that?

I’d give it a ‘9’ for accuracy.

[angelsnationtalk]

12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Greinke has 2/70 left. If the Angels cut Calhoun loose they're looking at 54 million off the books and probably 7-ish million more in arbitration, which means they could spend around 47 million before matching this year's payroll. So if the Angels took on 35 million a year with Greinke, they couldn't afford Cole, not without increasing payroll around 15 million for a year or two. They would still be under the luxury tax though, so no penalty.

Archer costs 9 million next year and has an 11 million option the year after that. So what they could do is Archer and Greinke. Or Archer and Cole. But unless Arte is willing to make a short term investment but going past previous limits for two years, Greinke and Cole together aren't an option....

Unless one of two things occur. 

1. The Angels get the D-Backs to eat some money in a Greinke trade, but that would require the Angels to pay much more in terms of prospects.

2. They sign Cole to a heavily backloaded contact. Like if he signs for 6/150 like I think he will, only pay him 15 million the first couple of years and 35 million the last couple.

But if that happens, you're looking at a rotation fronted by Cole, Greinke, Ohtani.... That in the playoffs combined with the Angels offense would scare the crap out of every team in baseball, like the Astros three past couple years, Red Sox or the Dodgers. They would be an upper echelon team.

I’ve read the Diamondbacks might be willing to eat $10M per season for him so that would leave us at 2/50 for Greinke. I think Arte could be wiling to open up a bit. Specially with Pujols’ contract coming to an end. That alone can supplement bigger pay to Ohtani/others later on. Pujols and Greinke’s contract would end the same year which would be $55M coming off. 

My main thought is I want a #1 like Cole this offseason. Period. Acquiring Greinke does interest me in hopes we don’t have to give up as much based on how much he is owed. Arizona would want a young controlled pitcher back so I’d offer Barria. Maybe we could get away with not offering Marsh. Something like Thaiss or Ward with Jones and Barria hopefully can get it done. If we can avoid Marsh or Thaiss to get him and still sign someone like Cole in the offseason then I’d go crazy. Hopefully seeing how bad the pitching this year was will make Arte say “I’ll expand the budget for that guy named Cole”