Whit Merrifield

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

KC would be smart to trade him now.  dude will be 30 in Jan and has 4 years of control.  Heard they're claiming they want to keep him as part of the next regime but that's asinine frankly.  

Dude is coming of a 5 WAR season at age 29.  I do think they ask for Marsh, Rengifo/Jones, and Suarez.  That's not an untenable deal for a team that is missing that one guy.  We aren't.  Let one of Fletcher, Jones or Regifo develop in to the 2bman of he future.  If there's another Merrifield in two years (there's always someone), and we've shored up other spots, then I'm all for it.  Not pulling the trigger on that type of deal just yet.  Part of my reluctance is that I think one of Rengifo or Jones is going to be as good sooner than later.  I'm likely going to be wrong, but I'd rather wait while we've got other holes to fill.  

You really think one of them will ever be a 4 or 5 WAR player?

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am most certainly not an all or nothing guy.

I prefer Merifield to the prayer that Fletcher turns into Mereifield.

I prefer the upside of Adell to some 32 year old 3 WAR outfielder.

It is about knowing which prospects to package for an impact player versus which prospects are worth keeping.

There have been many, many years I would not see any reason at all to trade ANY prospects because the roster upside looked weak either way.  My personal opinion is there are enough high impact player on the roster to have an appetite to pursue a couple more, because I think the team coukd be really good in 2019.

I dont believe that every year.

if you figure out the sentence in bold, then can you get me tickets?  I presume you'll be a major league GM if you do.  I prefer the shade if it's a day game.  

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

if you figure out the sentence in bold, then can you get me tickets?  I presume you'll be a major league GM if you do.  I prefer the shade if it's a day game.  

You gotta make some decisons, right?

I think if you just sit on everybody it doean't work out and if you trade everybody it doesn't work out.

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

You really think one of them will ever be a 4 or 5 WAR player?

Fletcher put up 2 WAR in 307 pa.  

Mostly though, I think that's the absolute peak for Merrifield who becomes a 2-3 WAR player from age 30-33.  I believe that one of the guys we have are as likely to become a 3-4 WAR player between now and two years from now as much as I believe that Merrifield will be a 4-5 WAR player ever again.  It's not about what he's done but the odds of him doing it again.  

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You gotta make some decisons, right?

I think if you just sit on everybody it doean't work out and if you trade everybody it doesn't work out.

absolutely.  It was the one true nit of Stoneman who was a great GM. But he couldn't part with anyone.  You're gonna make mistakes.  Your'e gonna win some trades.  And you're gonna break even.  Maybe where you and I differ is in our belief that the 2019 team can be a true contender.  My feel is that there really is an outside chance, but it's not enough of a chance to put a significant dent in the farm when it's so hard to figure out which of the precious are going to succeed at this point.  I think we are much closer to being a WC2 contender with some solid move.  In my opinion, the gap between that second wild card and actually vying for the division is substantial and would require and untenable outlay of prospect currency and loss of payroll flexibility to make up that difference.  

Don't get me wrong.  I want to see us improve the team and increase our chances for 2019.  I am ok with a small to modest use of resources as long as it helps for up to 3 years from now if it leans toward the modest side.   

[ten ocho recon scout]

14 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Whiff Merry-Go-RoundSwing 

GoSit Merrifield

NoHit Merrifield

Sh*t Merrifield

[ten ocho recon scout]

9 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Fletcher put up 2 WAR in 307 pa.  

Mostly though, I think that's the absolute peak for Merrifield who becomes a 2-3 WAR player from age 30-33.  I believe that one of the guys we have are as likely to become a 3-4 WAR player between now and two years from now as much as I believe that Merrifield will be a 4-5 WAR player ever again.  It's not about what he's done but the odds of him doing it again.  

Thats a good point.

One problem with WAR and this team, though. Without looking at the numbers but just watching the games. Im a little wary of comparing a guy like fletcher to merrifield in this situation.

Simply because how many of our guys have decent WAR, but based on their glove? Im not trying to downplay defense at all. But our offense needs a boost.

Lets say going into this season we make a move to acquire the atlanta simmons. And we gush over his WAR. The value is obviously there, but its not necessarily where our team needs it. 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Thats a good point.

One problem with WAR and this team, though. Without looking at the numbers but just watching the games. Im a little wary of comparing a guy like fletcher to merrifield in this situation.

Simply because how many of our guys have decent WAR, but based on their glove? Im not trying to downplay defense at all. But our offense needs a boost.

Lets say going into this season we make a move to acquire the atlanta simmons. And we gush over his WAR. The value is obviously there, but its not necessarily where our team needs it. 

wins are wins in my opinion.  I think the problem most of us have with WAR for defense is that it may not be as accurate as it is for hitters so we don't trust it.  Which I agree with actually.  For me, it's pretty obvious with Simmons because of how elite he is and when you actually see him it's completely apparent he's worth every bit of that value.  

What I think you're implying is that not all WAR is created equal and that for the halos, because they lack offensive balance, extending the lineup with a couple of players who get their value from offense vs. defense then it's actually worth more to the team as a whole than what's individually assigned to those players.  And to that, I agree wholeheartedly.  

There's something about not having any major holes or maybe one in your lineup where opposing pitchers get almost no breaks.  My eyes tell me that it makes everyone better even though I've never searched to see if it's something that's actually been measured.  

I'm just not a believer in Merrifield based on what I think it's going to cost.  I don't like that he's turning 30 before the season.   

[Angel Oracle]

14 hours ago, Stradling said:

Unless of course Fletcher turns into Merrifield over the next couple of years.  

Merrifield and Fletcher did have similar OBP's in the minors, although Merrifield stole more bases per PA.  

Both were drafted out of college.    It did take Merrifield 6 minor league years to get to the bigs, while it only took Fletcher 3 minor league years.

Merrifield has more HR sock, but otherwise both have similar XBH's skill.

Big question: why did Fletcher only try 3 steals in 80 MLB games?    He stole on average 20 bases per minor league season, close to 80% success.

It's tempting to hold on to Fletcher and Rengifo in 2019, and see if they indeed have their very own Merrifield ultimately.    

[greginpsca]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Merrifield and Fletcher did have similar OBP's in the minors, although Merrifield stole more bases per PA.  

Both were drafted out of college.    It did take Merrifield 6 minor league years to get to the bigs, while it only took Fletcher 3 minor league years.

Merrifield has more HR sock, but otherwise both have similar XBH's skill.

Big question: why did Fletcher only try 3 steals in 80 MLB games?    He stole on average 20 bases per minor league season, close to 80% success.

It's tempting to hold on to Fletcher and Rengifo in 2019, and see if they indeed have their very own Merrifield ultimately.    

When Fletcher reported to the Angels after being drafted, people in the Org said he will be a major leaguer. They were just not sure at which position. They said , along the likes, that he had a baseball aptitude and instincts you rarely see in young players. We have seen his defensive abilities, which i am not sure Merrifield can match. He is under control for the next half decade, and for less $ than Merrifield. Remember, you can't teach youth.

[Blarg]

20 hours ago, greginpsca said:

When Fletcher reported to the Angels after being drafted, people in the Org said he will be a major leaguer. 

Fletcher was the last player picked in the 6th round of the draft. He was one of Jerry's kids in the 2015 draft. You'd like to say it was a blind squirrel pick but that same year the Angels picked up Ward and Jones. There is a possibility the Angels end up with three major league players out of that one draft. 

 

[Blarg]

Also because of Fletcher's injury he actually maintained his Rookie status for next year. If he holds onto the 2nd base job he has a good chance to come in 2nd, behind Guerrero Jr in ROY voting.

Thanks Jerry!

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 10/30/2018 at 4:09 PM, CDiaz27 said:

Hernandez is 28 and hit .253 last year. Pass

Batting average. 

[Chuck]

Merrifield will cost too much, plus he'll be entering into his age 30 season and should see a decline in SB's. 

I say give Rengifo, Fletcher and Cozart the chance to battle it out. The loser of Cozart/Fletcher gets bumped to utility and Rengifo if he loses out goes back to AAA. 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

As for Fletcher’s WAR, I believe WAR gives you a boost for playing multiple positions. So Fletcher’s 2018 WAR when he played 2nd and 3rd is not a good indication of what his WAR would be if he only played 2B.

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Batting average. 

Yep..

Merrifield's OBP, even though he batted 50 points higher than Hernandez only slightly had a higher OBP in .367 vs. Hernandez at .356. He walked nearly 100 times, hit 15 HR and stole 19 bases. 

I think Hernandez would be the better get IMO and cost less. 

[Glen]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Merrifield will cost too much, plus he'll be entering into his age 30 season and should see a decline in SB's. 

I say give Rengifo, Fletcher and Cozart the chance to battle it out. The loser of Cozart/Fletcher gets bumped to utility and Rengifo if he loses out goes back to AAA. 

 

How do they battle it out though?  Spring training is somewhat meaningless.  Somebody is gonna get the starting job - I'm guessing Cozart because of the money, making him a perfect bookend to Pujols at 1B - but then they'll have time to prove themselves while the other guy sits and gets the occasional pinch-hit AB.  I just have a hunch that next season will start with Cozart at 3B and the battle is at 2B with Fletcher and RenGTFO.  GTFO will have to have a very good spring to move past Fletcher.

[Blarg]

1 minute ago, Glen said:

RenGTFO

Channeling your inner AO?

[Chuck]

Just now, Glen said:

How do they battle it out though?  Spring training is somewhat meaningless.  Somebody is gonna get the starting job - I'm guessing Cozart because of the money, making him a perfect bookend to Pujols at 1B - but then they'll have time to prove themselves while the other guy sits and gets the occasional pinch-hit AB.  I just have a hunch that next season will start with Cozart at 3B and the battle is at 2B with Fletcher and RenGTFO.  GTFO will have to have a very good spring to move past Fletcher.

I love that! lol

Just hopeful that $$$ shouldn't dictate a starting job. When Cozart was healthy this past season he didn't look anything like the guy the season before. In fact, he looked every bit of the guy who he's been for his entire career before last season. With that said, let there be a position battle for the starting job. Go out and get a legit 3B. 

Fletcher makes good contact and does a lot of things well, but he's not really the ideal leadoff guy you want as he doesn't: 1. Walk 2. Steal Bases 3. Have much power. 

RenGTFO looks every bit the part of a leadoff hitter. 

I'd rather have him or trade him for Cesar Hernandez, let Fletcher become our utility guy. 

[Glen]

I've already been using RenGTFO for a little while.  Not trying to usurp AO; it popped into my head the first time I read about him and it stuck.

[Glen]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I love that! lol

Just hopeful that $$$ shouldn't dictate a starting job. When Cozart was healthy this past season he didn't look anything like the guy the season before. In fact, he looked every bit of the guy who he's been for his entire career before last season. With that said, let there be a position battle for the starting job. Go out and get a legit 3B. 

Fletcher makes good contact and does a lot of things well, but he's not really the ideal leadoff guy you want as he doesn't: 1. Walk 2. Steal Bases 3. Have much power. 

RenGTFO looks every bit the part of a leadoff hitter. 

I'd rather have him or trade him for Cesar Hernandez, let Fletcher become our utility guy. 

Thing is, and my post didn't account for it, we have a new guy at the helm and a new staff coming in.  Maybe they won't care about Cozart's contract.  I hope they don't.  I also think the odds are that most of our money this offseason is spent on pitching, and that it will come down to Fletcher/Cozart/RenGTFO for 2B/3B.  I have nothing to back this up other than a hunch.  Eppler has often proved my hunches wrong.

[Docwaukee]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

As for Fletcher’s WAR, I believe WAR gives you a boost for playing multiple positions. So Fletcher’s 2018 WAR when he played 2nd and 3rd is not a good indication of what his WAR would be if he only played 2B.

it's prorated based on the time spent there.  the adjustment for both 2b and 3b is actually the same so it's as if he played one position from a WAR standpoint.  It's +2.5 runs based on a full seasons worth of innings (1458).  He played about half a season so his adjustment was about +1.2 runs or .12 WAR.  He got credit for 1.1 dWAR on bref so his real WAR for defense was about +1 win for half the year.  

[Docwaukee]

Let's be realistic.  No matter how Rengifo looks in spring, he's gonna start the year in AAA. He played at three levels last year and tailed off some at AAA.  As much as we hate to talk about starting a guys clock, they will absolutely delay his call up for that reason if not others. 

I certainly want him to win a job because having a high obp leadoff hitter that can steal you 25-30 bases and play solid defense would be ideal for this team right now.  

[Chuck]

8 minutes ago, Glen said:

Thing is, and my post didn't account for it, we have a new guy at the helm and a new staff coming in.  Maybe they won't care about Cozart's contract.  I hope they don't.  I also think the odds are that most of our money this offseason is spent on pitching, and that it will come down to Fletcher/Cozart/RenGTFO for 2B/3B.  I have nothing to back this up other than a hunch.  Eppler has often proved my hunches wrong.

Yeah, unfortunately the new guy (Ausmus) was beside Eppler when he signed Cozart to that deal. I just hope they give Rengifo the shot he deserves. The guy hit, get on base and stole bases at three levels last year in the minors. He's also not a slappy middle infielder either. He popped 12 HR in low-A in 2017 and had a respectable .452 slugging pct. in 2018. 

These numbers typify what a leadoff hitter should provide atop the lineup. 

 

[Docwaukee]

Imagine how often he'd score hitting in the lead off spot in front of Calhoun.