Mike Scioscia --Contrarian Thoughts

[instant karma]

Dear Fellow Angels Supporters:

Under the heading, be careful of what you ask for, as you may get it, Mike Scioscia is gone, just as many of you have been so anxious to see for years.  

I recognize that I may receive hate mail, but I believe Mike was a really good manager.  Here are my reasons (not in any particular priority order):

 

• His players loved him, even when they had losing seasons.  In 19 years, he never lost the club house.  That is amazing.  Orlando Cabrera said he was the best manager he ever played for.  Torri Hunter,  Juston Upton,   Garrett Anderson, Mike Trout, Otani, etc, --they all loved playing for Mike.  Lots of manager lose the clubhouse when seasons go south.  That never happened with the Angels under Sosh.  To me, that says something about his ability to manage the clubhouse.
• You can't blame Mike for the past 3 seasons,  How can a team win when four fifths of their starting rotation is gone for the season.  I think it's incredible that the team was as good as it was last year and this year they projected a rotation of Richards, Otani, Skaggs, Ramirez, and Shoemaker.  Basically, except for Skaggs, the rest were out for the year and Skaggs had at least 3 stints on the DL.  You take 4 starters out of most teams, and I think they may have trouble competing.  Yes, I know Oakland managed it this year, but I suggest that is an outlier.
• I think it's amazing how Sosh developed quality bullpens despite significant injuries over the years.  Last year, Street basically missed the entire season.  This year, Kenyon Middleton  missed the season.  

His players love the guy, his peers respect the guy as as very knowledgeable, and the Angels fans have, by and large, ripped him since I have been on this site.  I really don't get it.  When he had talent, the team won.  When his team was destroyed by injuries they often were still in the hunt late in the season.  And most importantly, to me, it speaks volumes that in 19 years he never list the clubhouse.  That is very rare.

It's not his fault the club signed Josh Hamilton, Pujols and Vernon Wells.  He and the entire club suffered as a result.  It's not his fault that Dipoto savaged the farm system , leaving the Angels with little talent to draw on for years. 

Of course, I hope the Angels select a great manager and I am confident they will.  They should be much improved next year, as many of their pitchers are set to return (Ramirez, Shoemaker, Bridwell, Middleton, Meyer).

[Jeff Fletcher]

That's all true, by the way. 

I have a leftover quote from Tim Salmon that didn't fit into my story today...

"I know the fans are probably wanting something more, but over time they’ll come to realize what they had. The grass is not always greener. You've got to be careful what you wish for." 

[instant karma]

Thank you, Jeff.  I always enjoy reading your work.  Enjoy your off-season.

[YouthofToday]

Scioscia was definitely heavily involved in the awful Vernon Wells trade. Ask Napoli his opinion on Scioscia...

i grew to respect MS more in the past few years. Despite being a stubborn man (how did Mickey Hatcher have a job as hitting coach for so long was beyond me) he had shown the willingness to take significant steps to be more evidenced based in using data to make decisions in the past few years - principally after Dipoto left. 

[ScottT]

Tyler Skaggs' quotes about Scioscia seemed less than enthusiastic 

That's as contrarian as it will get.

You aren't going to hear negative things about him from anyone involved in baseball (fans know nothing... or next to nothing at best)  Especially current players, coaches, broadcasters, and reporters. What good would come from it?

[ScottT]

The Mickey Hatcher thing was bizarre. Such an oddly long tenure for a hitting coach of a team that didnt always hit well.

Scioscia's lengthy tenure was strange, too. Out of whack with what's happened around the league.  While stability can be a good thing... other teams have had a lot more success while operating differently. 

[instant karma]

That's the problem with some fans.  For the love of god, the man managed the team for 19 years.  Of course, he made a staffing mistake now and then.  Who wouldn't.  You are evaluating hundreds, if not thousands of players over that period of time in the minors and majors.   You, like most of the people on this site have unrealistic expectations.  You people want to focus on a specific mistake versus the scope of his work over close to a 20 year period.  God help us.

How the heck do you know that Sosh was heavily involved in the Vernon Wells deal?   Tell us what inside sources you have that allow you state that so forcefully?

Yes, I suspect that Napoli may not have a great opinion on Sosh.  That's one player in 19 years and I suspect that Sosh may regret his decision on Napoli.  I'll take his batting average on player evaluation over 19 years if all you can provide is Napoli (and Mathis and I'll grant a few other players).

Yikes.

[Make Angels Great Again]

40 minutes ago, YouthofToday said:

Ask Napoli his opinion on Scioscia...

Counterpoint: Ask anyone here how many fucks they give about Napoli's opinion on coaches.

[dprep80]

33 minutes ago, instant karma said:

That's the problem with some fans.  For the love of god, the man managed the team for 19 years.  Of course, he made a staffing mistake now and then.  Who wouldn't.  You are evaluating hundreds, if not thousands of players over that period of time in the minors and majors.   You, like most of the people on this site have unrealistic expectations.  You people want to focus on a specific mistake versus the scope of his work over close to a 20 year period.  God help us.

How the heck do you know that Sosh was heavily involved in the Vernon Wells deal?   Tell us what inside sources you have that allow you state that so forcefully?

Yes, I suspect that Napoli may not have a great opinion on Sosh.  That's one player in 19 years and I suspect that Sosh may regret his decision on Napoli.  I'll take his batting average on player evaluation over 19 years if all you can provide is Napoli (and Mathis and I'll grant a few other players).

Yikes.

http://www.espn.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/7149521/mike-scioscia-says-ex-los-angeles-angel-mike-napoli-clash

[Fullmer17]

3 hours ago, ScottT said:

Tyler Skaggs' quotes about Scioscia seemed less than enthusiastic 

That's as contrarian as it will get.

You aren't going to hear negative things about him from anyone involved in baseball (fans know nothing... or next to nothing at best)  Especially current players, coaches, broadcasters, and reporters. What good would come from it?

What did Skaggs say?

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 hours ago, Fullmer17 said:

What did Skaggs say?

http://www.ocregister.com/angels-lose-amid-tributes-to-mike-scioscia-on-the-eve-of-the-seasons-final-game

[dprep80]

Trout also "agreed" with Scioscia it was time for a change if I'm not mistaken.

[stormngt]

9 hours ago, instant karma said:

That's the problem with some fans.  For the love of god, the man managed the team for 19 years.  Of course, he made a staffing mistake now and then.  Who wouldn't.  You are evaluating hundreds, if not thousands of players over that period of time in the minors and majors.   You, like most of the people on this site have unrealistic expectations.  You people want to focus on a specific mistake versus the scope of his work over close to a 20 year period.  God help us.

How the heck do you know that Sosh was heavily involved in the Vernon Wells deal?   Tell us what inside sources you have that allow you state that so forcefully?

Yes, I suspect that Napoli may not have a great opinion on Sosh.  That's one player in 19 years and I suspect that Sosh may regret his decision on Napoli.  I'll take his batting average on player evaluation over 19 years if all you can provide is Napoli (and Mathis and I'll grant a few other players).

Yikes.

Exactly

[Jobu]

Is it really "contrarian" when you get the most likes in a day, and the local beat writer agrees with you?

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Is it really "contrarian" when you get the most likes in a day, and the local beat writer agrees with you?

And the two guys that marked him with troll posting should just be shown the door.  Truly pathetic.  If you think that much different than the group, then you are simply the problem.  

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, Jobu said:

Is it really "contrarian" when you get the most likes in a day, and the local beat writer agrees with you?

I'll take nitpicking for $1000 Alex.

[mp170.6]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

And the two guys that marked him with troll posting should just be shown the door.  Truly pathetic.  If you think that much different than the group, then you are simply the problem.  

You really don't tolerate dissent very well.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

You really don't tolerate dissent very well.

I really don’t tolerate trolling.  If the most liked post of the day has two dudes marking it as a troll post it simply tells me all I need to know about those two people and their opinions.  You disagreed with the person, so you marked his post as a troll post.  It’s a bitch move in my opinion.  Unless of course you have a good reason, in which case you can obviously post why, but you won’t.  You’ll simply click the button.  

[Angel Oracle]

I see it both ways.    It was time for a change, because managers are not meant to manage one team forever, thus only four managers all time managed more games with one team than Mike Scioscia did.    I do hope that the new manager can combine Scioscia's excellent clubhouse building skills, with providing excellent analytics understanding into lineup building/pitching staff building/fielders placement.  

[mp170.6]

Stradling, you mark people's posts as "trolling" all the time with no explanation, yet you call me out for doing the same.

I get frustrated with people talking down to others who think a change is long overdue.  We finished 23.0 games out of first place.  This is not a competitive team anymore. Scioscia isn't the worst manager by any means, and I appreciate a lot of what he's brought to Anaheim, but the incessant brown-nosing is just excessive.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

Stradling, you mark people's posts as "trolling" all the time with no explanation, yet you call me out for doing the same.

I get frustrated with people talking down to others who think a change is long overdue.  We finished 23.0 games out of first place.  This is not a competitive team anymore. Scioscia isn't the worst manager by any means, and I appreciate a lot of what he's brought to Anaheim, but the incessant brown-nosing is just excessive.

I defend him against stupidity.  I defend him against dudes who blame him for things he has little or no control of.  If you want to blame him for stupid things then I will defend him.  I’d like you to show where I have actually talked about how great he is or how I would like him to be retained.  The only reason I have said I want him retained is to piss off the blowhards on here, because they deserve being miserable over things that aren’t that important.  

You aren’t going to change my opinion of you and I won’t begin to try to change your opinion of me.  But marking this positive post about Scioscia as a troll post says volumes about you on this subject.  

[failos]

Why is liking Sosh brown nosing?

[mp170.6]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I defend him against stupidity.  I defend him against dudes who blame him for things he has little or no control of.  If you want to blame him for stupid things then I will defend him.  I’d like you to show where I have actually talked about how great he is or how I would like him to be retained.  The only reason I have said I want him retained is to piss off the blowhards on here, because they deserve being miserable over things that aren’t that important.  

You aren’t going to change my opinion of you and I won’t begin to try to change your opinion of me.  But marking this positive post about Scioscia as a troll post says volumes about you on this subject. 

You've shown over the years that you defend Scioscia for pretty much anything. 

I respect that you love the guy.  I don't know why, but respect it anyway.  I guess that's why we argue, I'm more data and results oriented, and you're more emotional and loyal.  

BTW, anybody who takes the post labels that seriously deserves to get bent out of shape.  They're meant to be humorous.

 

 

[Jobu]

[Stradling]

Just now, failos said:

Why is liking Sosh brown nosing?

What is crazy is I don’t really like or love the guy, I respect what he has done and I don’t blame him for everything so since I don’t, then the guys that disagree with me say I love him or I am a brown noser.  Debating Scioscia with those guys is like shooting fish in a barrel.