Mike Scioscia --Contrarian Thoughts

[failos]

Just now, Stradling said:

What is crazy is I don’t really like or love the guy, I respect what he has done and I don’t blame him for everything so since I don’t, then the guys that disagree with me say I love him or I am a brown noser.  Debating Scioscia with those guys is like shooting fish in a barrel.  

I feel the same way. I’ve always been OK with having a new manager, but I like Sosh’s style. 

The guy always has his players backs, doesn’t stir the pot with the media, and is universally respected by his players. 

Just look at the Nats and see how important it is to handle a clubhouse.

 

[mp170.6]

I do commend him for not stirring the pot like @failos said above. 

That said, the "turn the page" BS got really old.

 

 

[failos]

1 minute ago, mp170.6 said:

I do commend him for not stirring the pot like @failos said above. 

That said, the "turn the page" BS got really old.

 

 

He just said things like that to the media, and handled the situations privately. Another reason I like him.

[mp170.6]

Just now, failos said:

He just said things like that to the media, and handled the situations privately. Another reason I like him.

There was never any urgency to get better though.  The lifeless demeanor of the team reflected his rolodex of 'turn the page' cliches.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

There was never any urgency to get better though.  The lifeless demeanor of the team reflected his rolodex of 'turn the page' cliches.

Because a fan says so, a fan with a preconceived opinion of why things are the way they are.  

[failos]

5 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

There was never any urgency to get better though.  The lifeless demeanor of the team reflected his rolodex of 'turn the page' cliches.

Sosh handles things in private. Not sure why his comments to the media matter to some people here. The guy doesn’t talk shit about his players to the media.

[mp170.6]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Because a fan says so, a fan with a preconceived opinion of why things are the way they are.  

That's exactly how you think.  Scioscia is a great manager because your preconceived opinion says so.

 

[mp170.6]

2 minutes ago, failos said:

Sosh handles things in private. Not sure why his comments to the media matter to some people here. The guy doesn’t talk shit about his players to the media.

I get that.

But there are very few examples of this team, or individual players, performing at or above their potential. 

He never seemed very adept at lighting a fire under their ass when it was needed.

[mtangelsfan]

3 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

I get that.

But there are very few examples of this team, or individual players, performing at or above their potential. 

He never seemed very adept at lighting a fire under their ass when it was needed.

Up until a couple of years ago his teams always played above what their team statistics said they would.  

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

That's exactly how you think.  Scioscia is a great manager because your preconceived opinion says so.

 

Nope I just think arguments like “turn the page” are pretty stupid.  So if I have to pick a side of a discussion it won’t be that side.   

[mp170.6]

14 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Nope I just think arguments like “turn the page” are pretty stupid.  So if I have to pick a side of a discussion it won’t be that side.   

I'm the same way with arguments that rely on emotion to defend a guy like Scioscia.

[Dick B Back]

22 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

 

But there are very few examples of this team, or individual players, performing at or above their potential. 

Lets see... examples of players performing at or above their potential:

Shields, Torii, Vlad, Simmons, some guy named Trout.

Should I continue?

[mp170.6]

20 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Up until a couple of years ago his teams always played above what their team statistics said they would.  

Which statistics are you referring to?

 

[mp170.6]

4 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

Lets see... examples of players performing at or above their potential:

Shields, Torii, Vlad, Simmons, some guy named Trout.

Should I continue?

Yes, please.  The list of guys who underperformed will be substantially longer.

And I don't even blame Scioscia for it, at least not directly.  

[Angel Oracle]

45 minutes ago, failos said:

Sosh handles things in private. Not sure why his comments to the media matter to some people here. The guy doesn’t talk shit about his players to the media.

i sure as heck like it this way, vs the Terry Collins/Larry Bowa way of doing things from 1997-1999.

I did get tired of the same old recycled lines, but understand the reasoning behind him using them.    

I imagine that part of the reason things seemed stale is Scioscia being manager for 19 seasons.   Let's just hope the next manager takes what he did and improves on the analytics portion of it, and does stay here for a while but with no more than 3-4 years at a time contracts.    No more 10 year contracts for managers

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

I'm the same way with arguments that rely on emotion to defend a guy like Scioscia.

There’s nothing more emotional than thinking turn the page is the same communication style he uses with his players. 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

Yes, please.  The list of guys who underperformed will be substantially longer.

And I don't even blame Scioscia for it, at least not directly.  

Well in order to logically list guys who under performed here you’d obviously have a long list of guys who left and had improved performance.   

[mtangelsfan]

This just proves that we will argue about anything.  Sosh is gone.  Nobody is going to change their opinion of the guy.

We will keep arguing about Sosh for years to come considering how long naps was still a big issue here.

[mp170.6]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

There’s nothing more emotional than thinking turn the page is the same communication style he uses with his players. 

None of us really know how things were discussed behind closed doors.

The lack of urgency in Mike's media responses did reflect the team's demeanor on the field pretty well.  Rarely did these teams play as if every game mattered.  That to me was a problem.

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, mp170.6 said:

None of us really know how things were discussed behind closed doors.

The lack of urgency in Mike's media responses did reflect the team's demeanor on the field pretty well.  Rarely did these teams play as if every game mattered.  That to me was a problem.

You don't think Trout, Simmons etc played to win every game?  That is a curious opinion.  You came to this conclusion by what, their demeanor on the field or after a game?

[mp170.6]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well in order to logically list guys who under performed here you’d obviously have a long list of guys who left and had improved performance.   

To me, "at or above potential" is maintaining career averages with a reasonable adjustment for older age.

By the way, I think you will appreciate this: I think Pujols was Arte's mistake. The handling of Pujols in more recent years rests with Scioscia, but the fact it's an issue at all lies with the stupidity of the long term contract Arte gave him.

Hamilton was 100% Arte's mistake.

[mp170.6]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

You don't think Trout, Simmons etc played to win every game?  That is a curious opinion.  You came to this conclusion by what, their demeanor on the field or after a game?

The Angels have had lots of players who appeared to be going through the motions following a horrid team record in April/May.  Minimal effort all around.  Jogging to first base.  Weak defense.  Refusal to work the count to get on base, etc.

Trout and Simmons would be exceptions to that, however.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, mp170.6 said:

There was never any urgency to get better though.  The lifeless demeanor of the team reflected his rolodex of 'turn the page' cliches.

outwardly only.   people know I'm a big fan but the one thing I heard he did was to intimidate the young or new guys to some degree.  I think that's where he was really old school and believed that there was a right of passage to the game.  If he didn't feel like you were going about the game the right way, he'd let you know for sure.  He just never ever did that publicly.  He's a very very strong personality and you can see that in the instant you meet him.  His demeanor is far from lifeless and he was always very clear of who was in charge.  He's actually a fairly intense guy.  

That's part of why I think the Angels are going in a different direction.  Lot's of young guys on the horizon and I think they may have felt that Mike wasn't overly patient with growing pains.  

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

None of us really know how things were discussed behind closed doors.

The lack of urgency in Mike's media responses did reflect the team's demeanor on the field pretty well.  Rarely did these teams play as if every game mattered.  That to me was a problem.

your second paragraph directly contradicts your first one. unless you were there, you have no idea, neither do i or anyone else here (well, maybe fletcher saw some things).

just because a manager doesn't show a lot of emotion on the field doesn't mean emotion is lacking. he could have come out on the field yelling and screaming like a madman. would that have helped any?

[Tank]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

outwardly only.   people know I'm a big fan but the one thing I heard he did was to intimidate the young or new guys to some degree.  I think that's where he was really old school and believed that there was a right of passage to the game.  If he didn't feel like you were going about the game the right way, he'd let you know for sure.  He just never ever did that publicly.  He's a very very strong personality and you can see that in the instant you meet him.  His demeanor is far from lifeless and he was always very clear of who was in charge.  He's actually a fairly intense guy.  

That's part of why I think the Angels are going in a different direction.  Lot's of young guys on the horizon and I think they may have felt that Mike wasn't overly patient with growing pains.  

“He’s definitely been an influential person in my career,” Skaggs said earlier this week. “We’ve had our ups and downs and butted heads. But he’s definitely been my biggest advocate at times.”

Skaggs admitted to “mixed emotions” regarding Scioscia, but he felt overall positive about his time with him.

“I think he’s been a big supporter and at times he’s been tough,” Skaggs said. “He’s tough on young guys. But I have a lot of respect for him.”