OC Register: Angels’ Shohei Ohtani passes another test with a simulated game in Arizona

[AngelsWin.com]

Shohei Ohtani threw 29 pitches in a simulated game on Monday at the Angels’ training complex in Tempe, Ariz., and “all went well,” according to the Angels. Ohtani faced both right-handed and left-handed hitters during his outing.

Ohtani is rehabbing from a damaged ulnar collateral ligament. The Angels are hoping for him to pitch again this season in the majors, and he now appears to be fairly close. Since the Angels said he’s not going to pitch in the minors during his rehab, all that’s left is for him to do is another, longer, simulated game. So far, Ohtani has had no setbacks in his rehab since he underwent a platelet-rich plasma injection on June 7.

Ohtani could return to the majors in September, even if he’s on a tight pitch limit, because by then rosters would have expanded enough that the Angels would have the bullpen depth to cover the innings.

Ohtani is expected to speak to the media on Tuesday before the Angels open a two-game series against the Arizona Diamondbacks.

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[Angelsjunky]

Is there really any chance Ohtani won't need TJS in the next couple years? Presumably there must be, otherwise it just makes more sense to lose all of 2019--when the Angels will likely still be relatively mediocre--than 2020 or 2021, when the Angels will hopefully be good again.

On the other hand, if they really do think he can avoid TJS altogether, then great. But after Garret Richards I don't have much faith.

[Jeff Fletcher]

29 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Is there really any chance Ohtani won't need TJS in the next couple years? Presumably there must be, otherwise it just makes more sense to lose all of 2019--when the Angels will likely still be relatively mediocre--than 2020 or 2021, when the Angels will hopefully be good again.

On the other hand, if they really do think he can avoid TJS altogether, then great. But after Garret Richards I don't have much faith.

I am going to sound like a broken record here, but I keep saying this over and over and it’s like no one wants to hear it....

Garrett Richards was told he needed TJ, then he got a second opinion and opted for PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was never told he needed TJ.

Garrett Richards couldn’t throw a ball for 13 weeks after PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was throwing at 6.

Garrett Richards didn’t face hitters until about 20 weeks

Shohei Ohtani faced hitters at about 10. 

Garrett Richards was 27 when he was diagnosed. 

Shohei Ohtani was 23.

Garrett Richards and Shohei Ohtani are different people with different arms and different types of tears. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Jeff Fletcher

[tomsred]

17 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

think about how you would handle the situation if you had season ticket packages to sell. That's where we are.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Maybe he should regular platelet rich injections.

[Angelsjunky]

52 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am going to sound like a broken record here, but I keep saying this over and over and it’s like no one wants to hear it....

Garrett Richards was told he needed TJ, then he got a second opinion and opted for PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was never told he needed TJ.

Garrett Richards couldn’t throw a ball for 13 weeks after PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was throwing at 6.

Garrett Richards didn’t face hitters until about 20 weeks

Shohei Ohtani faced hitters at about 10. 

Garrett Richards was 27 when he was diagnosed. 

Shohei Ohtani was 23.

Garrett Richards and Shohei Ohtani are different people with different arms and different types of tears. 

This is the first time I've read you talk about this, but I don't read every single post in every single thread.

I think the bottom line is that I, like many/most Angels fans, am a bit traumatized by all of the pitching injuries. When you're traumatized you tend to lose faith in good things happening and assume the worst. And I've also heard the view that he'll probably need TJS at some point in the next few years, that this is a view held by people who have some knowledge of his situation.

That said, your post here gives me hope.

[mulwin444]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

This is the first time I've read you talk about this, but I don't read every single post in every single thread.

I think the bottom line is that I, like many/most Angels fans, am a bit traumatized by all of the pitching injuries. When you're traumatized you tend to lose faith in good things happening and assume the worst. And I've also heard the view that he'll probably need TJS at some point in the next few years, that this is a view held by people who have some knowledge of his situation.

That said, your post here gives me hope.

If the doctor looking at Ohtani's arm, basically the only person qualified to make that determination, is saying he doesn't need TJS, why would he get it?  Almost any pitcher with enough innings on his arm MIGHT need TJS in the "next few years" but if he's not diagnosed with a tear requiring it, not sure what the Angels can do at this point except continuing doing what they are doing.

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

If the doctor looking at Ohtani's arm, basically the only person qualified to make that determination, is saying he doesn't need TJS, why would he get it?  Almost any pitcher with enough innings on his arm MIGHT need TJS in the "next few years" but if he's not diagnosed with a tear requiring it, not sure what the Angels can do at this point except continuing doing what they are doing.

I'm not suggesting that he get pre-emptive TJS or do anything other than what he's doing. I am wondering how much confidence the Angels have that he can avoid TJS, or whether this is another hail mary pass like Garrett turned out to be, that delays the inevitable. In Garret's case it probably hurt his long-term career prospects. And yeah, I'm expressing fear that he'll need it anyway. Ultimately we cannot know, but Fletcher's post makes me feel a little more hopeful.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I’m not saying he won’t need TJ. No one knows. What I’m saying is....

Doctors have told him he doesn’t need it now, so having it now is not an option. 

Given that, what’s he supposed to do?

Just not pitch and wait for ... what exactly? For doctors to tell him he can pitch? They already did. 

Also, Billy Eppler can read the standings. You don’t think he asked “if we just let him sit out will he be better off?” I suspect they said “not necessarily. He could take all winter off and still blow it out. You don’t ultimately know if he’s safe to throw until he throws.”

Thats why they had Garrett Richards throw in instructional league in 2016. Shoemaker did the same thing in 2017.

Finally, he and Richards are different cases. You can’t judge one by the other. Doctors are looking at Ohtani and his MRI to make these decisions.

Remember, there is a wide spectrum of grade 2. Basically grade 1 means it’s not torn at all, but it’s stretched. Grade 3 means it’s completely torn. Grade 2 is everything in between. 

Richards and JC Ramírez may have had completely different types of tears, and Ohtani’s recovery so far suggests they did.

[arch stanton]

When I watch Richards pitch it makes my arm hurt. He’s someone I’d peg for multiple elbow problems. If at some point Ohtani needs the surgery he can become a full time position player and still be a star

[Lou]

3 hours ago, ThomasSutpen said:

If the Angels had hired Andrew Friedman when they had the chance, instead of letting him ship over to Chavez Latrine, none of this would matter cause we'd have guys like Max Power getting unearthed from nowhere. But we're the Angels and we can replace Nolan Ryan with two 10 game winners and one of these days we'll be proven geniuses.

the dodgers have 9 pitchers on the DL

[failos]

Japanese people are really good at tests. I’m not surprised Shohei passed this one.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, failos said:

Japanese people are really good at tests. I’m not surprised Shohei passed this one.

that explains Richards, Shoemaker, Tropeano, Meyer, etc. always failing their tests 

[tdawg87]

2 hours ago, failos said:

Japanese people are really good at tests. I’m not surprised Shohei passed this one.

[Lou]

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am going to sound like a broken record here, but I keep saying this over and over and it’s like no one wants to hear it....

Garrett Richards was told he needed TJ, then he got a second opinion and opted for PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was never told he needed TJ.

Garrett Richards couldn’t throw a ball for 13 weeks after PRP.

Shohei Ohtani was throwing at 6.

Garrett Richards didn’t face hitters until about 20 weeks

Shohei Ohtani faced hitters at about 10. 

Garrett Richards was 27 when he was diagnosed. 

Shohei Ohtani was 23.

Garrett Richards and Shohei Ohtani are different people with different arms and different types of tears. 

Thanks for clarifying this.  Based on what I read, it sounds like Ohtani will need TJ surgery in the near future because of Richards.

[Angelsfan1984]

9 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

Because the human body wasn't designed to pitch. God would have made rotator cuffs way different if he knew how we intended to use em, but he had no way of knowing.

Let me get this straight...he can create a universe, but can't see into the future? What kind of second class god is this? For $3.99 a minute Miss Cleo could have told me that arms weren't meant to do that.

[Angel Oracle]

All of this probably explains the Halos strategy with Canning a year ago, and with Hernandez (3rd round) and Bradish (4th round) this season, sitting them out after being drafted out of college?    Trying to preserve innings build up?

Are other orgs also started to do this with their early round college pitching draft picks? 

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, ThomasSutpen said:

the alternative, and there's very robust evidence for this, is that God is just a troll. The real Troll Daddy. But that's what they call a digression when we're here to discuss how terrible Arte is as an owner and bond over the last few ABs of Trout's Angel career.

Touche!

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

The Angels have blind spots and one of them pertains to medicals. The Angels were the one organization that believed him when Canning's personal doctor said 'his arm isn't really shredded he's fine'. Maybe that personal doctor was just a savant that isn't motivated by money at all, but maybe the other shoe has yet to drop. We'll find out.

My understanding is the Angels are essentially trying to go easy on Canning’s arm whole building the crap out of his legs and ensuring he’s got mechanics that will keep him healthy. 

I believe they’re doing the same thing with a lot of other draft picks who we hear less about. I think a lot of the 2018 draft pitchers aren’t pitching this summer. 

[Angel Oracle]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My understanding is the Angels are essentially trying to go easy on Canning’s arm whole building the crap out of his legs and ensuring he’s got mechanics that will keep him healthy. 

I believe they’re doing the same thing with a lot of other draft picks who we hear less about. I think a lot of the 2018 draft pitchers aren’t pitching this summer. 

Are you starting to also see this with other orgs?

[Lou]

1 hour ago, ThomasSutpen said:

they use the DL as a tool for roster manipulation and the Angels do the same but they got that strategy from Friedman

Urias, Santana, Koehler, Cingrani, Fields and Garcia agree 

[Lou]

20 minutes ago, ThomasSutpen said:

he's not some type of sorcerer he can't actually prevent soft tissue from corrupting over time. yet. he hasn't nailed that down yet. But I respect him for not trading Urias for Dozier. and he still got Dozier later. Big time boss.

you just disproved your claim that Friedman uses the DL for roster manipulation.

well done. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Read this

http://www.ocregister.com/eager-to-return-to-mound-for-angels-shohei-ohtani-says-he-never-felt-pain-in-the-first-place

[Lou]

if you knuckleheads followed https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR on twitter, you would have known this