Youth Infusion 2019

[Hubs]

Am I wrong, or do we see some significant returns from the farm system starting in September 2018 for regular roles in 2019?

I think the Angels have been very veteran oriented with the position players over the last few years. We've seen the pitching prospects really develop and contribute, from Richards to Shoemaker to Skaggs, Meyer, to Heaney, Barria, Ohtani (does he count?) and Tropeano. We've seen relievers like Middleton, Bedrosian, and such make an impact.

Yet the most significant bats we've produced in the last 8 years are: 1) Trout - Obviously. 2) Calhoun 3) Trumbo 4) Cron. Next would be people like Marte, Bourjos, Cowart, Navarro, Conger, Perez.

The farm just hasn't given the Angels a good caliber starting position player since the first four above. Not compared to the starting pitching. We've been mostly a free agent and trade facilitated position player grouping since Aybar, Kendrick, Izturis, Morales, Kennedy, Molina, Figgins, Kotchman etc. in the early to mid-2000's filled out and then replaced the 1990's homegrown roster of Salmon, Anderson, Erstad, Edmonds, and Glaus.

But I see talent at AAA in Thaiss, Fletcher and Ward who could all have regular roles in 2019. Hermosillio seems a bit overmatched, but not by a lot, and might be ready for full time in 2019. Renifigo is killing it at AA, as is Jared Walsh and Jose Rojas.

And then in A-ball, Brandon Marsh, Jo Adell, and Jahmai Jones are all not exactly killing the ball, but definitely worth watching, soon. And Adell really has picked it up after a few rough games to start off the level. Even Baldoquin is hitting in A-Ball.

I am very encouraged and can see Ward, Fletcher, and Thaiss filling roles that this year went to Marte, Valbuena, and Kinsler.

And then in 2020, Adell or Marsh in Right Field.

 

 

 

[tdawg87]

You forgot Canning, who may well be 2019's Jaime Barria. Suarez will also be in the mix.

[aznhockeyguy]

If it wasn't for Dipoto, the Angels could've also had Grichuk and Clevinger still with the team. 

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, aznhockeyguy said:

If it wasn't for Dipoto, the Angels could've also had Grichuk and Clevinger still with the team.

And Segura.....

[Griffey's Corner]

The future of Angels baseball is pretty exciting.

[aznhockeyguy]

5 minutes ago, DMVol said:

And Segura.....

I can't blame Dipoto for that trade.  The trade worked out well for both sides.  Grienke pitched well for the Angels and obviously Segura developed into a top hitter and was blocked by Aybar and Kendrick at the time.  I don't think it's as bad as what the A's gave up to get Jeff Samardzjia a few years ago.

[floplag]

Its nice that the future is bright, but what about the now?  a youth movement in the middle of trying to keep Trout happy?  well we wont have salary cap issues to worry about much longer i guess   

[tdawg87]

Just now, floplag said:

Its nice that the future is bright, but what about the now?  a youth movement in the middle of trying to keep Trout happy?  well we wont have salary cap issues to worry about much longer i guess   

What does this even mean

[Griffey's Corner]

4 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

I can't blame Dipoto for that trade.  The trade worked out well for both sides.  Grienke pitched well for the Angels and obviously Segura developed into a top hitter and was blocked by Aybar and Kendrick at the time.  I don't think it's as bad as what the A's gave up to get Jeff Samardzjia a few years ago.

I respectfully disagree. The trade was a unmitigated disaster for the Angels. Grienke left and we compounded the problem by trying to use that money to sign Josh Hamilton.

 

The void at 2b for all these years with Espinoza & other crap.

 

Think of it this way if the Angels had Segura & the Mariners did not we would be in 1st place and they would be in 3rd place. 

[Griffey's Corner]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Its nice that the future is bright, but what about the now?  a youth movement in the middle of trying to keep Trout happy?  well we wont have salary cap issues to worry about much longer i guess   

Just like in recruiting they look at a player's junior year not his senior year. Tout will be looking at what is going on in 2019. Next year is when we better be good. By 2020 it will be too late. Who knows??? Maybe Trout is tired of seeing a lineup surrounded by over the hill crap. Who is to say Fletcher or Fernandez would not outperform anybody we could get in a trade.

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

I can't blame Dipoto for that trade.  The trade worked out well for both sides.  Grienke pitched well for the Angels and obviously Segura developed into a top hitter and was blocked by Aybar and Kendrick at the time.  I don't think it's as bad as what the A's gave up to get Jeff Samardzjia a few years ago.

Like all deadline trades involving prospects for rentals, it was a gamble both ways....Grienke pitched ok but the Angels didn’t make the playoffs....Brewers won that one, Grienke was gone and Segura was a good get for them...

[Griffey's Corner]

sometimes the best trades are the ones you do not make. A lot of people on here talk about the golden era of Angels baseball from 2002-2009..... the one thing about that era was we kept the core of prospects intact. We did not do a lot of trades for rentals.

[aznhockeyguy]

2 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

sometimes the best trades are the ones you do not make. A lot of people on here talk about the golden era of Angels baseball from 2002-2009..... the one thing about that era was we kept the core of prospects intact. We did not do a lot of trades for rentals.

Yea but a lot of fans were angry when they did that, keeping prospects instead of trading for established trades.  Of course this was during the steroid years.

[Griffey's Corner]

1 minute ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Yea but a lot of fans were angry when they did that, keeping prospects instead of trading for established trades.  Of course this was during the steroid years.

And that is true. I was in the minority that liked hoarding prospects. But the team was winning a lot. The core of prospects Weaver, Santana, Napoli, Kendrick, Aybar, etc.

 

 

[DMVol]

2 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Yea but a lot of fans were angry when they did that, keeping prospects instead of trading for established trades.  Of course this was during the Stoneman years.

FIFY

[ten ocho recon scout]

Something else that gets forgotten reference the jerry years isnt just that he traded prospects (and drafted poorly). But we also had a combo of a not special farm before him (some good players, but not near what it had been) and injuries like crazy. 

Not to defend him, and a lot has happened since him. But the lack of pitching prospects on top of the tommy john virus virtually every pitcher we had the last 5 years did us in. We had to scramble to fill those holes.

Grienk would have been great if he stayed. But losing him, santana snd haren falling apart left only weaver and wilson (who both fell off bad at the end). Combo that with no one in house to replace them. Had to trade trumbo to get santiago and skaggs...who promptly went out. Trade howie (rock solid for 8 years or so with no in house replacement) for heaney, who promptly went out. Etc etc.

Poor moves compounded the problem, but the biggest problem was injuries. And the second problem was a shit farm.

[totdprods]

With all the aggressive promotions, and seeing teams like Atlanta, Philly, Chicago WS, and Washington quickly get their top prospects aged 19-21 into the bigs, I definitely think is starting to become a viable possibility. 

Teams are getting younger, teams are getting savvier with money, and I think they're trying to get legit talent - not even elite minor league talent - into the majors as quickly as possible. In some ways, I think starting the clock sooner is becoming an option. We are going to see more young players sign Kingery-esque extensions and FA continue to become an expensive, risky atmosphere, which will also add incentive to those early 20-somethings into signing big extensions early on - they may not always be Longoria-esque deals, but it makes sense for them to secure themselves early on and save FA for their age 30-31 seasons and hope they've established themselves into contracts then. 

Shit, if Trout wound up hurt in '19 for an extended period, wouldn't surprise me if Adell got the call. And I still think possibly Canning and almost definitely Suarez pitch MLB innings this September. 

Instead of Trout having a strong farm to consider when he hits FA, he'll instead have a strong, young team of legit talent already around that he will have  been mentoring and playing alongside.

[Griffey's Corner]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

With all the aggressive promotions, and seeing teams like Atlanta, Philly, Chicago WS, and Washington quickly get their top prospects aged 19-21 into the bigs, I definitely think is starting to become a viable possibility. 

Teams are getting younger, teams are getting savvier with money, and I think they're trying to get legit talent - not even elite minor league talent - into the majors as quickly as possible. In some ways, I think starting the clock sooner is becoming an option. We are going to see more young players sign Kingery-esque extensions and FA continue to become an expensive, risky atmosphere, which will also add incentive to those early 20-somethings into signing big extensions early on - they may not always be Longoria-esque deals, but it makes sense for them to secure themselves early on and save FA for their age 30-31 seasons and hope they've established themselves into contracts then. 

Shit, if Trout wound up hurt in '19 for an extended period, wouldn't surprise me if Adell got the call. And I still think possibly Canning and almost definitely Suarez pitch MLB innings this September. 

Instead of Trout having a strong farm to consider when he hits FA, he'll instead have a strong, young team of legit talent already around that he will have  been mentoring and playing alongside.

if i was the Angels I would be more aggressive with promotions right now. Especially with the manager coaching for his job this season. Quit wasting time on the Chris Young's of the world.

[Ohtaniland]

12 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

if i was the Angels I would be more aggressive with promotions right now. Especially with the manager coaching for his job this season. Quit wasting time on the Chris Young's of the world.

This^^^^^^^^

 

Chris Young wouldn’t make many MLB 40 man rosters.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

What does this even mean

it means we have 2 years to convince him to stay, is a youth movement in one of those years the best idea?  

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

it means we have 2 years to convince him to stay, is a youth movement in one of those years the best idea?  

Well if the youth is good, yes. It means the future is looking bright.

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Well if the youth is good, yes. It means the future is looking bright.

if we dont make the post season it wont matter the age

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

if we dont make the post season it wont matter the age

Ok? 

What are you even suggesting? Having a young team with talent and potential seems like a better destination than a team stocking up on has-beens and guys who made their names elsewhere.

Trout is still very young. If he stays healthy he easily has another 12 years ahead of him. It's not like he's running out of time.

 

[TroutField]

2 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

I respectfully disagree. The trade was a unmitigated disaster for the Angels. Grienke left and we compounded the problem by trying to use that money to sign Josh Hamilton.

 

The void at 2b for all these years with Espinoza & other crap.

 

Think of it this way if the Angels had Segura & the Mariners did not we would be in 1st place and they would be in 3rd place. 

You realize Segura went to Milwaukee and Arizona before he ended up in Seattle? 

[floplag]

28 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Ok? 

What are you even suggesting? Having a young team with talent and potential seems like a better destination than a team stocking up on has-beens and guys who made their names elsewhere.

Trout is still very young. If he stays healthy he easily has another 12 years ahead of him. It's not like he's running out of time.

 

I should think thats obvious, if we dont win or make a run in the next 2 years Trouts gone.  His age isnt the problem, our lack of winning is.