Your thoughts?

[Inside Pitch]

So...  what does Joe Fan at AW.com think about this...   Do you approve or disapprove?   Would AP have been more or less reviled had he taken a similar approach and voiced similar thoughts?   Cabrera is making 30 mil this year and is off to a good start, the Tigers are 19-23 only a few games behind the Indians and they have recently lost two of their better players (according to WAR) to the DL...   

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23519697/detroit-tigers-miguel-cabrera-says-done-playing-hurt

"I went through that last year, so I don't want to do the same thing," Cabrera told reporters Tuesday, according to mlive.com. "Nobody appreciates you when you play hurt, so I'm going to take my time and play when I'm good. I played hurt a lot of years here in Detroit. They don't appreciate that."

"When you are doing bad, they crush you. They crush you," he said. "They say you're bad, you should go home, you don't deserve anything, you're old. I say, 'OK, I'm done playing hurt.' Now I take my time."

 

[T.G.]

Miguel Cabrera has a point - but his comments and attitude make me appreciate Albert Pujols even more.  In some ways, Cabrera is taking the easy way out.  "I'm taking my ball, and I'm going home" is basically what he's saying.  There's something to be said about the guy who comes to work every day - doesn't make excuses and shows up to do his best.  Some guys need the adulation and some guys are self-motivated.  Cabrera is an all-time great - but I'm not a fan of quitters.

[Stradling]

Joe Fan will say Albert playing hurt or healthy hurts the team.  

I respect him for wanting to play while he wasn’t 100%, he is in the sports sense of the word, a warrior.  

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, SuperTroopers said:

Joe Fan will say Albert playing hurt or healthy hurts the team.  

I respect him for wanting to play while he wasn’t 100%, he is in the sports sense of the word, a warrior.  

See -- thats the thing...    There is no question the dude is full of fight.  But people can paint that as a case of his ego getting the best of him and his refusal to accept his diminished capabilities while hurt.  A further case could be made that his rushing back created more issues and further accelerated his decline.   I don't know that there is any one "right" answer.  I also don't know that MCab isn't smart to avoid that sort of scrutiny.    As a fan, a player choosing to stay out when he could play is annoying, particularly given their other injuries.  But, I don't know that he isn't justified in saying/doing what he is.   Makes you wonder how something like this goes over in a clubhouse and you have to wonder what effect if any it could have on younger players in that clubhouse.

It will be curious to see how the Tiger fanbase reacts.  

[Adam]

I bet if he got traded to Red Sox he'd feel 100% physically. 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

See -- thats the thing...    There is no question the dude is full of fight.  But people can paint that as a case of his ego getting the best of him and his refusal to accept his diminished capabilities while hurt.  A further case could be made that his rushing back created more issues and further accelerated his decline.   I don't know that there is any one "right" answer.  I also don't know that MCab isn't smart to avoid that sort of scrutiny.    As a fan, a player choosing to stay out when he could play is annoying, particularly given their other injuries.  But, I don't know that he isn't justified in saying/doing what he is.   Makes you wonder how something like this goes over in a clubhouse and you have to wonder what effect if any it could have on younger players in that clubhouse.

It will be curious to see how the Tiger fanbase reacts.  

I think he is a damn idiot for saying those things.  All it does is cause issues with his team mates and the fans.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I think he is a damn idiot for saying those things.  All it does is cause issues with his team mates and the fans.  

It was certainly a brutal read and it makes me appreciate AP's unwillingness to sit back and just get paid.  Dude may have been misguided but there is no question he wanted to get back in there and try to help the team.   M-Cab seems content to let the team fail just because he doesn't feel "appreciated".

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, SuperTroopers said:

I think he is a damn idiot for saying those things.  All it does is cause issues with his team mates and the fans.  

He's being honest. How do you know that his teammates don't actually support him on this? It's a pretty common issue with athletes and I think were going to start seeing it more and more. Just because he has a massive contract doesn't mean he should be sacrificing his own well being because of it. Poor production because of injury often leads to fan bases questioning every move they make, so why not take the same criticism and just play when fully healthy?

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was certainly a brutal read and it makes me appreciate AP's unwillingness to sit back and just get paid.  Dude may have been misguided but there is no question he wanted to get back in there and try to help the team.   M-Cab seems content to let the team fail just because he doesn't feel "appreciated".

Is he really helping the team though? Does a sub 300 OBP out of your 4 hole hitter do anything other than bog down an offense? He is getting crushed for playing poorly but if he sits it out he'll get crushed for "not helping the team". Do you see the hypocrisy in that?

[T.G.]

Cabrera is voicing his frustration. We all do that.  Sometimes we say things against our better judgment and as a result, it comes out wrong in the process.  I started out over analyzing his statement... I've given it a bit of thought.  I don't know what he's going through.  We all do and say stupid things sometimes when we are frustrated.

[eaterfan]

Cabrera is having a pretty decent year so I'm not sure how to compare the situations. Plus the Tigers are decidedly out of it.

If they were contenders then I'd probably have a problem with it and I doubt Cabrera wouldn't play. 

But I have no problem with him doing what he is doing. Cabrera is helping his team. Albert was hurting his team last year and I think it would have shown real strength to say "I'm hurting the team and maybe someone can do a better job than I can when I'm hurt." I don't think Cabrera can say that about himself right now.

But I can also see the side that says "I'm owed a lot of money, the team is really bad right now. I don't want to chronically injure myself by playing right now. They may contend in 2-3 years and I'll be tying up a lot of resources. I'd like to be as good as I can so I can help the team when that happens. I don't want to be an anchor dragging them down." I have no problem with that approach either. Maybe if Albert had done that early in his Angel career he'd be a better player now when we're contending.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

He's being honest. How do you know that his teammates don't actually support him on this? It's a pretty common issue with athletes and I think were going to start seeing it more and more. Just because he has a massive contract doesn't mean he should be sacrificing his own well being because of it. Poor production because of injury often leads to fan bases questioning every move they make, so why not take the same criticism and just play when fully healthy?

My belief might be different, but he has to lead by example.  There is a fine line between being hurt and being injured.  Do young players know that fine line?  Ask any player if he is 100% and almost none of them will say yes.  Lots and lots of players play at 70% (I know that is a random number that I made up), but they go out because 70% of Miguel is better than 100% of his replacement.  If he isn’t playing hurt because of the criticism of the fans, then to me that is being selfish.  These are my opinions, nothing more.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Is he really helping the team though? Does a sub 300 OBP out of your 4 hole hitter do anything other than bog down an offense? He is getting crushed for playing poorly but if he sits it out he'll get crushed for "not helping the team". Do you see the hypocrisy in that?

Yes, that is fans hypocrisy, not Albert’s.  Nor is it on Albert that he is hitting clean up.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

Cabrera is having a pretty decent year so I'm not sure how to compare the situations. Plus the Tigers are decidedly out of it.

If they were contenders then I'd probably have a problem with it and I doubt Cabrera wouldn't play. 

But I have no problem with him doing what he is doing. Cabrera is helping his team. Albert was hurting his team last year and I think it would have shown real strength to say "I'm hurting the team and maybe someone can do a better job than I can when I'm hurt." I don't think Cabrera can say that about himself right now.

But I can also see the side that says "I'm owed a lot of money, the team is really bad right now. I don't want to chronically injure myself by playing right now. They may contend in 2-3 years and I'll be tying up a lot of resources. I'd like to be as good as I can so I can help the team when that happens. I don't want to be an anchor dragging them down." I have no problem with that approach either. Maybe if Albert had done that early in his Angel career he'd be a better player now when we're contending.

No team in that division is over .500, so they are all kind of in it.  

[Taylor]

My thoughts are this thread will go at least 8 pages.

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, SuperTroopers said:

My belief might be different, but he has to lead by example.  There is a fine line between being hurt and being injured.  Do young players know that fine line?  Ask any player if he is 100% and almost none of them will say yes.  Lots and lots of players play at 70% (I know that is a random number that I made up), but they go out because 70% of Miguel is better than 100% of his replacement.  If he isn’t playing hurt because of the criticism of the fans, then to me that is being selfish.  These are my opinions, nothing more.  

Oh I completely agree. If he's only slightly injured and not playing then that's 100% on him because everyone gets banged up playing professional sports. If he's legit hurt and not rushing it because of not wanting to play poorly and get hammered for it regardless of what he does then I believe he's making the right decision. He probably could have worded it differently but at the end of the day he knows his body. If his coach isn't calling him out publicly for it or other players then you have to take him at his word.

[Angelsfan1984]

2 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Yes, that is fans hypocrisy, not Albert’s.  Nor is it on Albert that he is hitting clean up.  

For a player of Alberts stature he could do as you stated above "lead by example" and tell Scioscia that he should be moved down. He knows what it takes to win and i'm sure he's well aware of his capabilities at this point. He shouldn't be hitting in the meat of the lineup. At best he should be hitting somewhere around 6-7

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Oh I completely agree. If he's only slightly injured and not playing then that's 100% on him because everyone gets banged up playing professional sports. If he's legit hurt and not rushing it because of not wanting to play poorly and get hammered for it regardless of what he does then I believe he's making the right decision. He probably could have worded it differently but at the end of the day he knows his body. If his coach isn't calling him out publicly for it or other players then you have to take him at his word.

If he is legit injured then yea, don’t play.  If you aren’t playing hurt because you don’t want to get hammered for it, that is pretty weak.  He is still better hurt than his replacement.  Also as guys point out on here all day everyday, these guys get paid very well to deal with criticism.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

For a player of Alberts stature he could do as you stated above "lead by example" and tell Scioscia that he should be moved down. He knows what it takes to win and i'm sure he's well aware of his capabilities at this point. He shouldn't be hitting in the meat of the lineup. At best he should be hitting somewhere around 6-7

I agree.  

[Angelsfan1984]

Just now, SuperTroopers said:

If he is legit injured then yea, don’t play.  If you aren’t playing hurt because you don’t want to get hammered for it, that is pretty weak.  He is still better hurt than his replacement.  Also as guys point out on here all day everyday, these guys get paid very well to deal with criticism.  

Its easy to say when you're not the one involved. I'm sure he's got his demons that he's dealing with and generally speaking no amount of money can fix a mental state. Its easy to say, "i can go out there and suck ass for 30 million dollars a year" These guys are pro's and i'm sure failure has a lasting effect on the mental psyche of players. I'm not even saying I don't feel the other way on it, i'm just speaking to generalities in that on a much much smaller scale I would take less money to be at a job i'm happy with than to make more being miserable every day.

[Stradling]

Just now, Angelsfan1984 said:

Its easy to say when you're not the one involved. I'm sure he's got his demons that he's dealing with and generally speaking no amount of money can fix a mental state. Its easy to say, "i can go out there and suck ass for 30 million dollars a year" These guys are pro's and i'm sure failure has a lasting effect on the mental psyche of players. I'm not even saying I don't feel the other way on it, i'm just speaking to generalities in that on a much much smaller scale I would take less money to be at a job i'm happy with than to make more being miserable every day.

Yep.  It pisses me off when Joe Fan says, oh that player doesn’t care anymore because he got paid.  It is a pretty shitty thing to say since the way they became major leaguers is by being the most competitive people amongst incredibly talented players in the world.  They don’t just lose that when they get paid.  

[Dick B Back]

When I saw the title of this thread, for some reason I immediately thought of Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey.

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Is he really helping the team though? Does a sub 300 OBP out of your 4 hole hitter do anything other than bog down an offense? He is getting crushed for playing poorly but if he sits it out he'll get crushed for "not helping the team". Do you see the hypocrisy in that?

Are you talking about now or back when he was a one legged guy hobbling around the field...   AP isn't hurt anymore, he's just as close to done as it gets.   

As far as hypocrisy goes -- I think I alluded to just that.  You are preaching to the choir.

[bloodbrother]

My thoughts are I wish Pujols would retire so the Angels can further improve a roster that is trending upwards despite his anchor slowing them down

[Stradling]

Just now, bloodbrother said:

My thoughts are I wish Pujols would retire so the Angels can further improve a roster that is trending upwards despite his anchor slowing them down

Cool, now what are your thoughts on what MCab is saying and doing?