Martin Maldonado, $3.9 million deal

[John Smith]

Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 10m10 minutes ago

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The #Angels avoid arbitration with catcher Martin Maldonado, signing him to one-year, $3.9 million deal

[JAHV76]

I was hoping he might get an extension. He was solid defensively last year.

[ettin]

1 minute ago, John Smith said:

Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 10m10 minutes ago

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The #Angels avoid arbitration with catcher Martin Maldonado, signing him to one-year, $3.9 million deal

Wow that is quite a bit more than his projected $2.8M salary from MLBTradeRumors.com. Not that he doesn't deserve it of course he did a fantastic job this season!

Curiously I wonder if they are still working on an extension contract for him as there have often been times where the team settles with an arbitration case but continue to work on a longer term contract.

[Jeff Fletcher]

36 minutes ago, ettin said:

Wow that is quite a bit more than his projected $2.8M salary from MLBTradeRumors.com. Not that he doesn't deserve it of course he did a fantastic job this season!

Curiously I wonder if they are still working on an extension contract for him as there have often been times where the team settles with an arbitration case but continue to work on a longer term contract.

That is usually how it happens, as with Calhoun last year. His multiyear agreement came a week after his one-year agreement.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That is usually how it happens, as with Calhoun last year. His multiyear agreement came a week after his one-year agreement.

Do you think an extension is a good possibility for Maldonado? 

[ettin]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That is usually how it happens, as with Calhoun last year. His multiyear agreement came a week after his one-year agreement.

I think they will do it, I even mentioned it as a strong possibility in the Angelswin.com 2018 Primer Series: http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win/angelswin-com-2018-primer-series-backstops-and-bench-players/

"Martin’s great ability as a backstop will be the likely motivator for the Angels to offer him an extension contract this off-season, particularly when you consider how much they relied on him in 2017.

The Angels would probably find a lot of value in buying out Machete’s last year of arbitration and tacking on another 3-4 years of contractual control. Perhaps something like a 4-5 year, $24M-40M (AAV of $6M-8M) deal would satisfy both sides, giving the Angels long-term stability behind the dish and allowing Martin and his family to achieve lifetime financial security."

It seems like that $6M-8M per year AAV seems reasonable with how close he is to free agency and his relative production.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Do you think an extension is a good possibility for Maldonado? 

I have not heard anything either way. I would not be surprised either way.

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, ettin said:

I think they will do it, I even mentioned it as a strong possibility in the Angelswin.com 2018 Primer Series: http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win/angelswin-com-2018-primer-series-backstops-and-bench-players/

"Martin’s great ability as a backstop will be the likely motivator for the Angels to offer him an extension contract this off-season, particularly when you consider how much they relied on him in 2017.

The Angels would probably find a lot of value in buying out Machete’s last year of arbitration and tacking on another 3-4 years of contractual control. Perhaps something like a 4-5 year, $24M-40M (AAV of $6M-8M) deal would satisfy both sides, giving the Angels long-term stability behind the dish and allowing Martin and his family to achieve lifetime financial security."

It seems like that $6M-8M per year AAV seems reasonable with how close he is to free agency and his relative production.

You are aware that he's going to be 32 next season, right?

(EDIT: Just looked it up.... Only 2 catchers in their age 32 or later season caught 90 games last year. Yadier Molina and Brian McCann. 2019 will be Maldonado's age 32 season.)

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You are aware that he's going to be 32 next season, right?

This is a great point, and a reason as to why I want us to explore acquiring more catching talent.  I like Maldonado, he had a great defensive year and I look forward to another one from him, but he is at the age where it's unlikely to expect him to keep performing at that level much longer.  Yes, he has less mileage on him than most starting catchers at his age, but he still caught roughly half a season for all the years before that, so he still has mileage nevertheless.  Ward seems like he could be a good future backup, and Casali intrigues me, but I think we have more work to do on the catching front.

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You are aware that he's going to be 32 next season, right?

Yes and normally I wouldn't suggest that many years but the entire coaching staff appears to love him and Mark Gubicza said on the air last year that Scioscia considers him a "extra coach" on the field (and perhaps I read it in an article you wrote as well Jeff, too). That is high praise from Mike.

Just seems like they see a lot of value in Martin. I certainly could be wrong about the years but I'd point to a guy like Yadier Molina whom the Cardinals thought highly enough of to give a 3-year deal with him entering his age 35 season. Now certainly Molina is a better hitter and deserves the higher amount of money but it just feels like the Angels have the same "feel" towards Maldonado that the Cards do towards Yadier, particularly in regard to their work ethic at the position, that makes me think they'll give him a longer commitment.

I will freely admit that this is all based on the work we saw this season combined with the comments I've heard about his leadership on the field. It is more of a gut call than an economically-based one I will admit Jeff.

[Troll Daddy]

Grandal signed for 1/7.9M as basically a backup catcher 

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Grandal sign for 1/7.9M as basically a backup catcher 

I'd say Grandal is their "co-catcher."  I think Barnes and Grandal will split playing time.  Grandal is an elite defender as well and has had a number of solid years in a row, so his contract number makes sense IMO.

[Erstad Grit]

6.7 million not too crazy for a great catching tandem 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

I think they will do it, I even mentioned it as a strong possibility in the Angelswin.com 2018 Primer Series: http://thesportsdaily.com/angels-win/angelswin-com-2018-primer-series-backstops-and-bench-players/

"Martin’s great ability as a backstop will be the likely motivator for the Angels to offer him an extension contract this off-season, particularly when you consider how much they relied on him in 2017.

The Angels would probably find a lot of value in buying out Machete’s last year of arbitration and tacking on another 3-4 years of contractual control. Perhaps something like a 4-5 year, $24M-40M (AAV of $6M-8M) deal would satisfy both sides, giving the Angels long-term stability behind the dish and allowing Martin and his family to achieve lifetime financial security."

It seems like that $6M-8M per year AAV seems reasonable with how close he is to free agency and his relative production.

no way should the angels do anything like that. maldonado is an excellent defensive catcher, there's no denying that, but he's got no bat and you need a bat if you're going to get a big contract. mix in his age and you'd be paying him an amount and a term that no other team would give him. i just don't see the reason to do that.

[ettin]

18 minutes ago, ukyah said:

no way should the angels do anything like that. maldonado is an excellent defensive catcher, there's no denying that, but he's got no bat and you need a bat if you're going to get a big contract. mix in his age and you'd be paying him an amount and a term that no other team would give him. i just don't see the reason to do that.

$7M AAV per year is a big contract? For an excellent defensive catcher? Disagree. Matt Wieters got 2 years/$21M last year and Maldonado is better than him defensively in my opinion. Wieters has (had) a better bat obviously but the delta between them is reasonable.

There is more here than Martin's defense and bat too. Intangibles like his game calling, his universal praise among the coaching staff, and his eagerness to learn how the teams pitchers throw and how he will have to handle them. Leadership qualities.

Just my opinion I certainly could be wrong Ukyah. I think he gets extended but we can certainly argue about the years and price. I would note that the Angels have settled at $3.9M which is a full $1.1M above his projected arbitration salary from MLBTradeRumors.com and to me that is a clear olive branch to Martin to convince him the Angels want him longer than the next year.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You are aware that he's going to be 32 next season, right?

(EDIT: Just looked it up.... Only 2 catchers in their age 32 or later season caught 90 games last year. Yadier Molina and Brian McCann. 2019 will be Maldonado's age 32 season.)

I just looked up Bob Boone and he played 7 years for the Angels from age 34-40 catching almost every game for the first 5 years. You just don't see that anymore. 

[Docwaukee]

We got Maldonado for nothing and he won a gold glove.  As much as we like his defense and handling of the pitchers, he's probably a 2 win player because of his bat.  Which was pretty awful frankly.  2-3 yrs at 5mil per? Maybe.  Frankly, I trust Billy to find an adequate replacement.  Like Rene Rivera mind you. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I don't think we should get carried away.  

 

[arch stanton]

At any pivotal offensive portion of a game, either catcher can be pinch hit for and replaced next inning with a nearly exact replica. What they bring to the game behind the plate can make it worthwhile when the lineup lacks other obvious holes like it had last year

[Warfarin]

22 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

We got Maldonado for nothing and he won a gold glove.  As much as we like his defense and handling of the pitchers, he's probably a 2 win player because of his bat.  Which was pretty awful frankly.  2-3 yrs at 5mil per? Maybe.  Frankly, I trust Billy to find an adequate replacement.  Like Rene Rivera mind you. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, but I don't think we should get carried away.  

 

I agree that we should not get carried away, but for different reasons.  If we feel confident that Maldonado can continue to be an elite defensive catcher for 3-4 more years, then he's absolutely worth it, as a catcher's defensive contributions far exceed ANY other position on the field.  The only issue is, Maldonado will be 32, and while he doesnt have much mileage of some of his peers, it still might be optimistic to assume he can maintain his current level of defense as he hits his mid 30s.

I do think we need to invest in a young, strong defensive catcher.  A catcher's impact on the game is tremendous, from pitch-framing, pitch-calling, throwing out runners, etc.  Analytically-drive FOs are pouring money into scouting, drafting, and developing a bevy of catchers.  Eppler is doing the same, as he has acquired Maldonado, Rivera, and Casali, but more work needs to be done, as we need more talent in the minors.  I'm not sure Ward ever develops into anything more than a backup catcher.  We'll see.

[arch stanton]

I guess that depends on whether these guys have the same “trainer” that I-Rod had

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I agree that we should not get carried away, but for different reasons.  If we feel confident that Maldonado can continue to be an elite defensive catcher for 3-4 more years, then he's absolutely worth it, as a catcher's defensive contributions far exceed ANY other position on the field.  The only issue is, Maldonado will be 32, and while he doesnt have much mileage of some of his peers, it still might be optimistic to assume he can maintain his current level of defense as he hits his mid 30s.

I do think we need to invest in a young, strong defensive catcher.  A catcher's impact on the game is tremendous, from pitch-framing, pitch-calling, throwing out runners, etc.  Analytically-drive FOs are pouring money into scouting, drafting, and developing a bevy of catchers.  Eppler is doing the same, as he has acquired Maldonado, Rivera, and Casali, but more work needs to be done, as we need more talent in the minors.  I'm not sure Ward ever develops into anything more than a backup catcher.  We'll see.

not sure our reasons are different at all.  In fact, your post is something I strongly agree with.   Catcher defense, framing and sequencing is likely undervalued.  The fact that the halos finished with a near .500 record and one of the worst SP staffs in baseball is a testament to that.  Maybe I am undervaluing Machete by saying he's a 2 win player.  Or maybe I'm right considering that by conventional value he's a shade over a 1 win guy.  33 yo Kurt Suzuki rocked a 2.8 WAR season.  

My point is that we are likely overrating MM a bit.  We were ranked 24th by C WAR last year.  

I bet Eppler thinks he can replace Maldo pretty easily.  Doubtful he gets an extension.  

 

[totdprods]

There's a lot more to Machete than WAR, and I don't think there's a translatable $$$ to WAR equation that can be accurately applied to him. 

His bulldog attitude, emphasis on pitcher relations, and hunger to learn, study, and research are worth the $3m he's earning this year alone. That's how impressive those aspects of his game have been to me, and I'm not really one to buy into the idea of applying dollar value to intangibles like that. Machete has it in spades though. His immediate reaction to the Ohtani signing, the request for two years worth of starts so he could start working, showed me all I needed to know.

I hope Eppler still gets an extension with him. I agree that with his age you don't need to go crazy, and as Fletcher pointed out elsewhere, he will still need a good sum, so maybe it waits until next year when we have some contracts drop off, but I'd like to see him stick around through '20 to keep this core intact.

[Stradling]

If only we still had Jett Bandy. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

I was so sad to see Jett Bandy traded, but man did he ever reverse course last year. I still think he can be an outstanding catcher though.

 

Taylor Ward can still be really good. .400 OBP last year in AA at age 23 (1 year under league average).

[Chuck]

Maybe wait and see how Taylor Ward develops in 2018 as he's coming off a solid '17 campaign.