The time to go "all in" is right now

[Rico]

Two things to consider

1. The age of the roster.  Simmons, Trout, Trop, Skaggs, Heaney, Bridwell, and Bedrosian fall in 26-28 age bracket.  Upton, Calhoun, and Richards between 29-30.  The core of our roster are all in their primes.  The guys in the 26-28 age range should be putting up the best seasons in their careers within the next three years.

2. Trouts contract extension looms.  Even taking into account Pujols' contract coming off the books, you also have Simmons new contract, Ohtani's new contract, and some of these young arms we have will be soon to be free agents by then.  Simply put it's going to be harder to build a competitive roster around Trout once he signs his new contract.

I feel our best bet for another WS is within the next three years.

[totdprods]

3. Eppler is halfway through his contract, and while he has surely performed well enough to earn an extension and made almost all the right moves, there has to be a little sense of urgency or desire to make a big strike and get a winning season or playoff appearance or two under his belt before his current contract expires.

Its another reason why I feel like we will sign one of Darvish, Arrieta, Lynn, Cobb, or Reed (or make a significant trade) before all is said and done. We still have enough money to play with, we've hardly touched the farm, and we satisfied virtually every need this winter, basically for less money than expected, and that's not counting the Ohtani jackpot.

[wopphil]

I agree the time to go all in is now. We have just three more guaranteed years of Trout and Simmons, and no high end minor league talent ready to break out in the next year or two. Although I wouldn't gut the farm, I do think Eppler should make a few more moves to take this team from good to great. Add Darvish and Reed, and there is no reason this team can't compete with Houston for the division.

[Second Base]

Who knows, theybmight be saving up to make a run at Donaldson or Machado next year and move Cozart to 2B.

I doubt it, since as the original poster stated, we have a lot onncintract extebsions and re-signings to do. Trout, Simmons, Ohtani, Richards, Maldonado, Heaney, maybe Kinsler depending on how he performs.

[eaterfan]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Two things to consider

1. The age of the roster.  Simmons, Trout, Trop, Skaggs, Heaney, Bridwell, and Bedrosian fall in 26-28 age bracket.  Upton, Calhoun, and Richards between 29-30.  The core of our roster are all in their primes.  The guys in the 26-28 age range should be putting up the best seasons in their careers within the next three years.

2. Trouts contract extension looms.  Even taking into account Pujols' contract coming off the books, you also have Simmons new contract, Ohtani's new contract, and some of these young arms we have will be soon to be free agents by then.  Simply put it's going to be harder to build a competitive roster around Trout once he signs his new contract.

I feel our best bet for another WS is within the next three years.

That's what got is in this mess in the first place. We had Pujols, Wilson, Weaver, and Hamilton all in the years when we could contend with them. I'm turns out that we should have been trying to contend with Trout a few years down the road. 

Maybe our best chance to compete will be when the Astros fall off a bit and our young outfielders hit their stride and Otahni is in his prime.

I don't think that adding Darvish and even a 1B upgrade will make us favorites for the division. I also don't think the team will suffer a serious step back as the team ages next year. This year's draft is supposed to be amazing. Losing the pool money for a second rounder could mess up our whole draft. Next year's FA class is going to be much better. We'll also have more information on our young prospects so we can make smarter trades and FA signings. Maybe next offseason is the time to go "all in."

[WeatherWonk]

Agree completely. This three year window is the time.

Imagine the Angels w/o Trout or Simmons. Imagine trying to replace potentially 14-15 WAR per season.

Imagine being the Angel farm hands chosen to replace them, if that's the route they go. Arrgh !!!!

 

[wopphil]

28 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

That's what got is in this mess in the first place. We had Pujols, Wilson, Weaver, and Hamilton all in the years when we could contend with them. I'm turns out that we should have been trying to contend with Trout a few years down the road. 

Maybe our best chance to compete will be when the Astros fall off a bit and our young outfielders hit their stride and Otahni is in his prime.

I don't think that adding Darvish and even a 1B upgrade will make us favorites for the division. I also don't think the team will suffer a serious step back as the team ages next year. This year's draft is supposed to be amazing. Losing the pool money for a second rounder could mess up our whole draft. Next year's FA class is going to be much better. We'll also have more information on our young prospects so we can make smarter trades and FA signings. Maybe next offseason is the time to go "all in."

I disagree. Pujols and Hamilton were bad signings, but that doesn't mean you shy away from free agency. 

[eaterfan]

42 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I disagree. Pujols and Hamilton were bad signings, but that doesn't mean you shy away from free agency. 

I wasn't arguing to avoid free agency all together. I loved the Cozart signing and I think Upton's extension was a good move. I was just using them to point out that we used that group of players and their ages as our window for contention and we didn't need to. We made more moves to try to compete in that window but we should have waited and built for Trout's prime instead of Pujol's prime. 

I think this team should be building to be good in a year or two and stay good through the early part of Trout's FA years. If we make the ALCS this year but it costs us a chance to be good 5 years from now then why would that help us retain Trout? He's not stupid. If he sees our farm system development has stalled and we're near the top of our budget when he hits FA why will he stay? What happens if he leaves and we're in that situation?

[Stradling]

It’s a hindsight thing.  The team had no idea Trout was going to be a GREAT player before acquiring Pujols.  We knew he had a great rookie year, but still didn’t know he was going to be this great, before the Hamilton signing.  

[VariousCrap]

I agree with Rico.  The time is definitely now.  I don't think they need to spend like the Dodgers though.

[Troll Daddy]

Seems crazy to see a ‘all-in’ thread  ... wasn’t that long ago some here were clamoring for a rebuild @Stradling

[floplag]

I agree we have a window here to do something, BUT... Hou isnt going away easy and likely still has the better roster overall even if we make another move or two.   That having been said, you have to take your shot when you get it, and we are in a position to take a shot if we wanted to.  As a fan, of course i want to see that happen.  

The real question is what does that even mean at this point.    There are obvious options, sign Darvish or Morrison, or a lesser trade for Headley, or the more obvious things like Yelich etc... but i for one am looking at Eppler to get creative here without taking us out of the loop for next off seasons FA class.

Random thoughts, not suggestions....  Is it worth the possible defensive letdown to make a run at a McCutcheon in RF option?    Is there even the remotest possibility that Atl might move Freeman?  What if Hosmer's price falls down a little in the slow market?

[fan_since79]

Imagine a Scioscia extension and three more years of Albert in the cleanup spot with a .260 OBP.

Sorry, but those things have to change before we can talk about a World Series.

 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

I agree we have a window here to do something, BUT... Hou isnt going away easy and likely still has the better roster overall even if we make another move or two.   That having been said, you have to take your shot when you get it, and we are in a position to take a shot if we wanted to.  As a fan, of course i want to see that happen.  

The real question is what does that even mean at this point.    There are obvious options, sign Darvish or Morrison, or a lesser trade for Headley, or the more obvious things like Yelich etc... but i for one am looking at Eppler to get creative here without taking us out of the loop for next off seasons FA class.

Random thoughts, not suggestions....  Is it worth the possible defensive letdown to make a run at a McCutcheon in RF option?    Is there even the remotest possibility that Atl might move Freeman?  What if Hosmer's price falls down a little in the slow market?

Here are my thoughts on this.  It certainly seems as though this year the years of contracts are going to be much more tolerable than what I would imagine next years to be with the big names in next years class.  I would much rather sign a guy like Darvish or Cobb, or Lynn to a 3 or 4 year deal this year, than hope we can sign someone next year to a huge dollar and longer contract.  My main concern when looking at next years free agent class is what impact would signing one of those guys have on resigning Trout.  

When I see some of the names you suggested I really would only want Freeman or Yellich.  I think Morrison is just a guy and not a really good one at that.  If you put faith in one year of Morrison then we might as well have the same faith in Cozart or we might as well assume Kinsler is not going to bounce back.  As for McCutcheon, I just don’t think he is an upgrade really over Kole after you factor in defense.  Hosmer to me is just a young FA that will be over-valued.  He looks like a better player than he actually is.   Defensive metrics hate the guy, which is weird  because he passes the eye test.  Headley would only make sense to acquire if Valbuena and his entire contract is traded the other way.  Now Freeman or Yellich, those are both very good players that truly make a line up deeper.  I think for what this team needs Yellich would be more fitting.  He can hit anywhere from leadoff to 3rd.  

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Here are my thoughts on this.  It certainly seems as though this year the years of contracts are going to be much more tolerable than what I would imagine next years to be with the big names in next years class.  I would much rather sign a guy like Darvish or Cobb, or Lynn to a 3 or 4 year deal this year, than hope we can sign someone next year to a huge dollar and longer contract.  My main concern when looking at next years free agent class is what impact would signing one of those guys have on resigning Trout.  

When I see some of the names you suggested I really would only want Freeman or Yellich.  I think Morrison is just a guy and not a really good one at that.  If you put faith in one year of Morrison then we might as well have the same faith in Cozart or we might as well assume Kinsler is not going to bounce back.  As for McCutcheon, I just don’t think he is an upgrade really over Kole after you factor in defense.  Hosmer to me is just a young FA that will be over-valued.  He looks like a better player than he actually is.   Defensive metrics hate the guy, which is weird  because he passes the eye test.  Headley would only make sense to acquire if Valbuena and his entire contract is traded the other way.  Now Freeman or Yellich, those are both very good players that truly make a line up deeper.  I think for what this team needs Yellich would be more fitting.  He can hit anywhere from leadoff to 3rd.  

I agree with all this, which i why I worded the suggestions as i did.   I'm simply brainstorming a little on what options there might be to actually go "all-in" so to speak.  I don't really see it out there right now.   Yes we can sign a starter but that in and of itself isnt  "all-in" IMO

Dont get me wrong im a big Kole fan, i dont want to replace him, BUT... were not replacing Trout or Upton so he would be the odd man out if we looked at an OF so they would have to be significantly better than him.  Same thing on the infield, its set for 2018, the only question mark is possibly a "full time" 1B.   There really isnt anywhere else to make a move right now. 

Next off season, options a plenty, right now... were limited due to previous moves. 

[VariousCrap]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I would much rather sign a guy like Darvish or Cobb, or Lynn to a 3 or 4 year deal this year, than hope we can sign someone next year to a huge dollar and longer contract.  My main concern when looking at next years free agent class is what impact would signing one of those guys have on resigning Trout.  

 

I agree with this, but Darvish is going to get a lot more than Cobb or Lynn would.  IMO, Cobb is the pitcher to get.  The Cubs offered him 3/42 and he declined their offer, but I think that gives you an idea what value other teams feel Cobb is worth.  I think it is at least worth a try.  I'd offer him 4/60.

[Troll Daddy]

 I think the team is set this season at first base. Pujols will be the X factor going into the season. He has averaged about 650 PA every year. This season may be different with Ohtani in the picture. It’s going to be interesting to see how all this plays out with Pujols/Cron/Valbuena at first base. 

Yes to pitching depth ...  I don’t think a big name FA is in the cards this season. I do see a possible trade as the season progresses. I hate the fact that we lost out on Petit. 

[Stradling]

I don’t think there is a really anything we can do to be considered the favorites to win the west.  What we have to do is build a team that can win a 7 game series.  If that is the case then we need to sign the best starter and best relievers still available and then trade for Archer or Cole and move someone like Richards to the closers role.  A lockdown pen is maybe the best bet to win a 7 game series against a team as good on paper as the Astros.  

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

I don’t think there is a really anything we can do to be considered the favorites to win the west.  What we have to do is build a team that can win a 7 game series.  If that is the case then we need to sign the best starter and best relievers still available and then trade for Archer or Cole and move someone like Richards to the closers role.  A lockdown pen is maybe the best bet to win a 7 game series against a team as good on paper as the Astros.  

I agree, and was touting lock down pen from the start and hate that we havent really addressed that fully as yet.  

[UndertheHalo]

i think we should see what we've got with this group before we start talking about going "all in".  If it turns out that we have a good rotation of pitchers then sure, solidify and pursue the premium guys in next years FA class.  Or maybe try and trade for a guy like Freeman as our development system continues to improve.  I think we still have too many unknowns to make too many big commitments this season.  Especially to older guys like Arrieta.

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing us go after Reed though.

Edited January 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Stradling]

Sign Darvish or Cobb, trade for Gerrit Cole, move Richards to closer (assuming his elbow can handle throwing all out 50 times a season).

 

Starters

Darvish

Cole

Ohtani

Skaggs

Heaney

Bridwell

 Bullpen

Johnson

Noe Ramirez

Bedrosian

Middleton

JC Ramirez

Parker

Richards

 

 

 

 

[Ohtaniland]

I think Arte is done spending on any high end players for the time being. Like it or not Arte did pay $20M to the Ham Fighters for Ohtani and when you add that to the current payroll obligation he’s already committed over $200M to this year’s team. We really can’t complain if Arte decides to put his wallet away for later. 

That being said, if we’re serious contenders at the deadline then I could see them making some type of deal that would require Arte to spend more money. But this current team had better perform and not be teetering around .500 in August.

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

 I think the team is set this season at first base. Pujols will be the X factor going into the season. He has averaged about 650 PA every year. This season may be different with Ohtani in the picture. It’s going to be interesting to see how all this plays out with Pujols/Cron/Valbuena at first base. 

Yes to pitching depth ...  I don’t think a big name FA is in the cards this season. I do see a possible trade as the season progresses. I hate the fact that we lost out on Petit. 

Well thats the problem, is interesting acceptable?  There are options to be explored there is all im saying. 
As of this moment Cron/Valbuena platoon is our "starting" 1B.  We know what were going to get from that and it isnt great.     Its the most obvious spot that can be upgraded.
 

[UndertheHalo]

its also a matter of whether we really think we can equalize with Houston this season.  I think realistically its tough to think we can. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Well thats the problem, is interesting acceptable?  There are options to be explored there is all im saying. 
As of this moment Cron/Valbuena platoon is our "starting" 1B.  We know what were going to get from that and it isnt great.     Its the most obvious spot that can be upgraded.
 

While I agree that it is the most obvious area to improve, I think Valbuena is better than what we saw last year.  Despite having a low batting average in the 2nd half of last year he was pretty good.  It was about what Morrison did last year and about 30 points shy of what Hosmer did.  Now if you can get Freeman then I will be all ears.