Complete the Roster

[eaterfan]

5 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I'd like to see a complete team, with few question marks. We are close. In a perfect world, we would add another starter, a lock down pen arm, a second baseman and a third baseman. Maybe even a first baseman or DH type.

We obviously can fill all these positions, but it doesn't seem unrealistic to me to fill 3 or even 4 of them. Cesar Hernandez would be a huge starting point because of his low salary.

What would you think of signing Neil Walker and trading for Eugenio Suarez? It's not clear the Reds are looking to deal him the way the Phillies are trying to deal Hernandez. But Suarez is also first year arb eligible. He put up 3.7 WAR - higher than Hernandez - and is solid defensively.

[Warfarin]

I think it's pretty much a given we're going to acquire a 2B.  We have no real option other than Cowart.  We have cap space.  There are a number of second baseman available via trade.  It's a buyer's market for 2B.  I guarantee you we are getting someone.  Ideally it'll be Hernandez, as he best suits our needs, but I'm confident we get someone.

Beyond him, we have many options.  I like Santana, but we have no need for a first baseman anymore.  I think we could sign Moose, as we have no third base prospects coming up, and he'd give us a LH presence in the lineup.  But *ONLY* if we get him at a fairly discounted contract, which is definitely possible given the lack of 3B buyers in the market.

Darvish would be cool, but I'm reluctant to commit significant dollars to a SP on the wrong side of 30.  We could always just find some players who we could sign to 1 year contract.  Harper is a FA next year, and the Yankees are conceivably no longer in the market for a RF.  I'd be cool adding Harper to this team

 

[Warfarin]

14 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You’d have to dig deep into the farm to get Cesar Hernandez. This sounds like a job for Dipoto. 

I think he can be had.  If it requires gutting the farm system, then forget it.  Again, it's a buyer's market.  If a team asks too much, then that's okay, move along to the next option.  Hernandez, Kinsler, Castro, Walker, etc...

[ten ocho recon scout]

The good news is, weve checked in on Santana. And Abreu. And now with Ohtani, they likely are no longer options.

My point being, we are looking at a bunch of different options. (Like when we got simmons out of nowhere). Unlike some previous GMs, were not hellbent on one guy, then scrambling when it doesnt work out.

Hernandez makes way too much sense. Im split between 3B and pitching. Pens are the new black, so I wouldnt at all want to sit back with what we have now.

Ive come around on moustakas. Then again, it depends on what the long term plans are. Something tells me we go with Valbuena and Cowart, aiming for one of the big 3Bs next year. That would make sense why we arent chasing stanton, who i know for a fact arte likes a lot.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

In another thread someone said the supposed asking price for Hernandez was Skaggs + a prospect.  If that's the price then to me that's a no brainer especially with the addition of Ohtani who gives you the flexibility to move a pitcher.  If signing a 3B takes the Angels out of the Donaldson running next year I'm okay with that considering he'll be a 33 year old FA and you're going to be paying him for his best years with another club.  I don't want the Angels to overpay for Moustakas or anyone else this year but if the price is right you make that signing because maybe having a shot at Machado next year shouldn't have the Angels trotting out a poor option at 3B.  Add a few bullpen pieces and maybe a starter who is a #3-5 type who won't cost a lot, perhaps a guy who had a down year in 2017 and maybe you get a rebound out of him.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Darvish would be cool, but I'm reluctant to commit significant dollars to a SP on the wrong side of 30.  We could always just find some players who we could sign to 1 year contract.  Harper is a FA next year, and the Yankees are conceivably no longer in the market for a RF.  I'd be cool adding Harper to this team

 

I almost wonder if Darvish would sign a shorter contract here now. Maybe not discounted, but short...then retire. But I also see him going back to Texas.

And i think if the dodgers dont swoop last second for stanton, harper goes there next year.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m on board with Moose but Machado and Donaldson will be FA’s in 2019. 

Both of which will cost much more, and neither of which are left handed.  Moose is the right move IMO when you look at the roster as a whole.  

[Angelsjunky]

53 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I don’t get the Hernandez talk ... do the Phillies have him on the trading block?

I don't fully get it either, but I think the Phillies have tentatively made him available because they're in full rebuild mode and have a couple good to very good middle infield prospects in JP Crawford (SS) and Scott Kingery (2B). Kingery hit .304/.359/.530 with 26 HR between AA and AAA as a 23-year old.

 

[Angelsjunky]

Yeah, Cron should be gone. Matt Thaiss is a decent back-up option if Ohtani or Pujols get hurt. That said, I don't think he'll net much more than a fringe prospect.

Similarly with 4th OF: I'd like to see the Angels sign an easily replaceable cheap speed/defense guy, with the idea that Hermosillo is on the verge.

[Ohtani&Trout]

I'd sign Darvish (if it's reasonable) and use one of our SP (Skaggs?) to trade for  Hernandez.

[wopphil]

16 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

What would you think of signing Neil Walker and trading for Eugenio Suarez? It's not clear the Reds are looking to deal him the way the Phillies are trying to deal Hernandez. But Suarez is also first year arb eligible. He put up 3.7 WAR - higher than Hernandez - and is solid defensively.

I have no objection to moving prospects for a good cost controlled player, especially if it gives us payroll flexibility for other moves. IMO, that is the main benefit to a guy like Hernandez. 

I am not sold on the rotation. Way too many question marks. I'd like another good arm brought in. I think the team would be better served adding a starting pitcher and a second baseman rather than a second baseman and a third baseman.

[Dtwncbad]

I very much hope Eppler fully explores any way to get Brian Dozier.

Talk about a perfect fit.  That guy can hit literally anywhere in the lineup including leadoff with that OB% and his pop from that position is elite.

I am not a pure homer guy but I do want as many guys in the lineup as possible that are capable of delivering a 3 run homer to win a game or get back in a game.

And look at how many postseason games hinged on somebody popping a solo homer to tie or go ahead.  That's just today's game.

I want Dozier.

 

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I almost wonder if Darvish would sign a shorter contract here now. Maybe not discounted, but short...then retire. But I also see him going back to Texas.

And i think if the dodgers dont swoop last second for stanton, harper goes there next year.

I don't think the Dodgers sign Harper.  They are averse to long-term contracts like that.  It's just not Friedman or Zaidi's style.

The Yanks are out on Harper almost assuredly.  I don't think we are really contenders for him, but you have to admit, his LH power presence would fit in tremendously well with our team.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, Warfarin said:

I don't think the Dodgers sign Harper.  They are averse to long-term contracts like that.  It's just not Friedman or Zaidi's style.

The Yanks are out on Harper almost assuredly.  I don't think we are really contenders for him, but you have to admit, his LH power presence would fit in tremendously well with our team.  

To be fair, in terms of long term contracts, im not sure it applies. Maybe friedman hasnt done one yet as a dodger (longoria in TB), but has the oppurtunity been there yet? The dogs will have more than enough money when the time comes.

Im with Doc, I think they want Stanton...if they fail, I think they buy a big name next year.

[Troll Daddy]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I don't fully get it either, but I think the Phillies have tentatively made him available because they're in full rebuild mode and have a couple good to very good middle infield prospects in JP Crawford (SS) and Scott Kingery (2B). Kingery hit .304/.359/.530 with 26 HR between AA and AAA as a 23-year old.

 

Haven’t the Phillies been in rebuild mode for the last ten years or so 

lol

[CanadianHalo]

If we’ve checked in on Abreau, I’m hoping we’ve checked in on Machado and Donaldson. Now I don’t think the Jays are willing to trade Donaldson BUT there’s rumours that the Jays MAY be up for sale. 

If those rumours are true I wouldn’t expect any big adds from the Jays this offseason and maybe trading someone like Donaldson for a decent prospect haul helps sell the team. 

My dream scenario is we trade whoever in the farm to land Machado. Machado is only 25 and you’ll essentially lock down the left side of the infield with him and Simba. Obviously this is so unlikely but that’s why I said “dream scenario”.

Realistically, I’ve always wanted Hernandez. So if we grab Hernandez I wouldn’t even be mad if we brought back Escobar to play 3rd

[JarsOfClay]

I'd sign Cozart to be the 2b he had a.385 obp last year.  I'm not sure if that was for real but if the angels are going to a 6 man rotation then they need a more versatile team, and Cozart would be able to backup Simmons at SS.

I like Cowart at 3b, his defense would help the starting rotation that is riddled with arm troubles by getting to more balls and making more plays than Valbuena would.

I'd use the extra money to get an established closer or dominate reliever that can close in case Johnson fails.  Holland or Morrow or both if possible.

 

[Warfarin]

Man, it's pretty fun right now to envision all the possibilities though.  Signing Ohtani is huge and opens up a whole host of opportunities for us.  I would ideally like to see us acquire a significant SP,  though.  A upper tier SP to accompany Ohtani + Richards would really make us legitimate contenders.

So IMO, I'd like to acquire a 2B (Hernandez) and a SP (Darvish?), and call it an offseason.  Have Valbuena occupy 3B for this offseason, then revisit the 3B situation next offseason.

[wopphil]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Man, it's pretty fun right now to envision all the possibilities though.  Signing Ohtani is huge and opens up a whole host of opportunities for us.  I would ideally like to see us acquire a significant SP,  though.  A upper tier SP to accompany Ohtani + Richards would really make us legitimate contenders.

So IMO, I'd like to acquire a 2B (Hernandez) and a SP (Darvish?), and call it an offseason.  Have Valbuena occupy 3B for this offseason, then revisit the 3B situation next offseason.

Yeah, this is pretty close to what I think would be ideal. Darvish, Otani and Richards would be a three headed monster, with tons of depth for the 4 and 5 spots (and the ability to trade one or two guys for other needs).

[bloodbrother]

22 minutes ago, floplag said:

Both of which will cost much more, and neither of which are left handed.  Moose is the right move IMO when you look at the roster as a whole.  

I don't care if they are left handed or not, they are far superior players and Machado would be one of the rare FA's who are available when they are just entering their prime(26 yrs old).

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Yeah, this is pretty close to what I think would be ideal. Darvish, Otani and Richards would be a three headed monster, with tons of depth for the 4 and 5 spots (and the ability to trade one or two guys for other needs).

 

Yup, for sure man.  I know the impetus is to plug every hole possible, but I'm perfectly content with Pujols/Cron/Valbuena/Marte/etc plugging up 1B/3B for now.  If we can sign Moose for a significant discount, then that's cool, but not needed.  I'd prefer another SP at the top of the rotation.  If we actually made the playoffs, a Darvish/Richards/Ohtani rotation would be pretty legitimate.  

Asides from that, I'd like to look into finding more catching talent.  I'm good with Maldonado, but he's a year away from free agency, and I'd like to be proactive about finding an elite defensive catcher to be his replacement and/or his counterpart.  Not sure who that'd be.  

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

I don't care if they are left handed or not, they are far superior players and Machado would be one of the rare FA's who are available when they are just entering their prime(26 yrs old).

Not disputing that, but as said will cost a LOT more, and still leaves us right handed heavy.  
Moustakis put up a 272/314/835 line last year, with 38 HR
Machado put up a 259,/310,/782 with 33.
And it isnt like Moustakis is old, only 29 himself.  
Machado is the better player overall, i dont argue that, but taking into account all other factors, im fine with Mous

[eaterfan]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

Not disputing that, but as said will cost a LOT more, and still leaves us right handed heavy.  
Moustakis put up a 272/314/835 line last year, with 38 HR
Machado put up a 259,/310,/782 with 33.
And it isnt like Moustakis is old, only 29 himself.  
Machado is the better player overall, i dont argue that, but taking into account all other factors, im fine with Mous

Good thing defense doesn't count!

BTW - Machado averages 5 WAR per season (Mous has never hit 4.5). I didn't count either player's first partial season. Mous averages less than 2 WAR. 

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Sounds like you’re content with “if we make the playoffs “ . 

Rome was not built in a day.  DiPoto destroyed this team.  It's been a gradual rebuilding process.  I am cool with making systematic steps and not trying to force fit things.  We're getting close now.  

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I'd be much inclined to take Frazier on a short deal than mous on a 4-5 year. His obp isn't ideal. Plus if there's any shot at Machado I don't want to be strapped down 

Eppler didn't use up international money to block these guys by over paying for Machado. From what I can surmise the plan is Trout being the center piece, Simmons probably an extension and the farm supplying the next infield and outfield pieces in two to three years. 

Payroll has to be flexible because every position costs a lot to maintain. In the short sighted approach there is money for Stanton or Machado but in the long game there are pitchers not named Ohtani that will be either hitting free agency or second year arbitration raises that saps that money you thought you had. You are placing 25 guys at the table, not three guys (Trout, Upton & Machado) and everyone else eats off the crumbs left over. 

That is why I just don't see the point in all of the Stanton rumors or Machado next season rumors. That is over half the payroll used up in three players. It gross innefiecency and that's not the way it appears Eppler is rebuilding this franchise. 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Blarg