Dipoto blew it with Jean Segura

[Coachbulldog]

Outside of Segura, what prospects have we given away turned into above average major leaguers?  The only one I can think of is the pitchers we gave up for Haren, but that was a solid move.  Had we won with Haren, no one would have judged that to be a bad move.  It was only a bad move in hindsight.  As for Segura your right, he is probably better than what our front office thought of him.  However, you say "why does this keep happening?".  I ask who else did the front office screw up on by trading?

 

It certainly wasn't Kotchman, or Rodriguez.

 

Correct. The failure of the Angels front office, long before DiPoto became GM, was NOT trading prospects.

[Mark68]

Correct. The failure of the Angels front office, long before DiPoto became GM, was NOT trading prospects.

Kinda like how the front office balked at giving up Adenhart in the Miggy trade.

[Link]

I thought the hangup on the miggy trade was Wood?

 

Sad/weird to think that a simple baseball decision like choosing to keep him instead of dealing him could mean the difference between life and death for a player.  Adenhart could potentially be alive and thriving right now if they had chosen to deal him.  Crazy that such seemingly inconsequential things can be so huge.

[Mark68]

It might have been Wood. I just know that Adenhart was a part of it.

 

But yeah, if the FO hadn't balked at that, not only would we have had Miggy (and not Pujols), but Adenhart wouldn't have been killed by a drunk driver in Fullerton.

 

The Butterfly Effect.

[summit21]

I was against the contract extension with Aybar, given that we had Segura coming up. Aybar has not shown enough consistency IMO to get that extension.

[bloodbrother]

HR #6 for Segura. 6 HR, 8 SB on the year. Could you imagine him and Trout hitting at the top of the lineup right now. Ouch

[AZMike]

HR #6 for Segura. 6 HR, 8 SB on the year. Could you imagine him and Trout hitting at the top of the lineup right now. Ouch

 

Segura (SS)

Bourjos (CF)

Trout (LF)

Pujols (DH)

Trumbo (1B)

Hamilton (RF)

Kendrick (2B)

Callaspo (3B)

Iannetta ©

 

Aybar dealt for (non-rental) pitching

[Inside Pitch]

I was against the Greinke trade cause Greinke isn't all that good, and certainly not worth what was sent for him.

 

 

The two pitchers are scrubs -- The Angels actually got him for pretty cheap.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/82667   Put him in the majors and he will walk the bases loaded.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/41885   Pretty much more of the same -- 24 years old and in the Southern League.  Someone will talk up his ERA and ignore league data and his age.

 

Scrubs.   Combined they aren't as good as Donn Roach.

[The Dude]

Segura (SS)

Bourjos (CF)

Trout (LF)

Pujols (DH)

Trumbo (1B)

Hamilton (RF)

Kendrick (2B)

Callaspo (3B)

Iannetta ©

 

Aybar dealt for (non-rental) pitching

I would have been happy with that. Looks pretty sick actually. I don't think it would have crippled the org to let go of one of Kendrick or Aybar. It actually may have been the better decision for the long term.

[Make Angels Great Again]

I would have offered Maronde and Cron and left it at that.

[bloodbrother]

I was all for the Greinke trade. Segura was the only prospect of the bunch who I thought would develop into a good player...and with Kendrick and Aybar just having signed extensions a few months prior, Segura really had nowhere to play

 

Still sucks to see a homegrown talent prospering somewhere else. Aybar isn't a bad player and he's better defensively at SS than Segura is, but it looks clear that Segura will be a much more dynamic player

[The Dude]

I wonder if the FO doubted Segura ability at the ML level, why else wouldn't they have given him a chance? They could have held off the extension talks for a little while and given Segura a chance to prove himself.

[Angelsjunky]

Again, we can look at any single transaction Dipoto has made (except for perhaps Blanton, although I would add Pujols and Hamilton) and say that it made sense at the time he made it. But what worries me is the net result: not good. Again, I realize that it has only been a year and a half and Dipoto inherited Reagins' mess, but my concern is that he's invested such a huge amount in four players all in their 30s, and none (as of now) are performing as expected. That's a problem.

 

So again, most of his moves have made sense at the time. But somehow the net result hasn't been good, and most look bad in hindsight.

[The Dude]

Agreed. They still have a chance to turn it around, but so far it's not looking very likely.

[YouthofToday]

Folks in the baseball industry knew what the free agent market was going to be last season, and in futures seasons. To claim we didn't know Greinke would get that kind of money is a damning indictment against the competency of the Angels FO.

Peter Angelos is probably the only owner in MLB who is more involved in player personal decisions than Arte Moreno. Heck, even Cashman has more influence with the Steinbrenner family now than Dipoto with Moreno.

Moreno is the problem IMO. He doesn't have the expertise or wisdom to get involved as much as he does in player personnel and development issues. Of course his opinion matters -- he's the owner. However, it is quite clear to me Arte, despite his willingness to break even or loss money every year -- excluding the appreciating increase of the asset (organization) if would wish to sell the team -- is part of the problem.

[Ohtaniland]

name one team where the owner does not play a significant role in big FA acquisitions. Arte isn't behaving any differently than any other owner in this regard. And no, he doesn't handle all of those acquisitions by himself. The owner always has the final say in whether or not to pursue those kind of acquisitions. Arte was involved in the wooing process to entice those players to sign with the Angels, players that were already being pursued by the team (and Dipoto). The owner taking an intimate relationship approach to acquiring these kind of big name players is an effective tool. But to say that Arte ramrods these deals past Dipoto or that Arte handles these deals on his own and doesn't allow for input and decisions from his GM and Manager is ridiculous. 

 

October 29th 2011 the day Dipoto was hired; LA Times article,

 

Saturday's news conference to announce the hiring of Jerry Dipoto as the Angels' new general manager, it seemed clear who will be calling the shots in Anaheim.

And it won't be the manager many think is the de facto general manager, or the guy writing the checks.

"He has complete power," Angels owner Arte Moreno said of Dipoto, the former Arizona executive who signed a three-year contract with two option years to become the 11th general manager in franchise history. "I don't know when people started to think this was a one- or two-headed monster."

 

 

So these were all exclusively Dipoto's ideas to pursue Pujols, Hamilton and Wilson while Arte was in charge of the wooing. Ok got it.

[YouthofToday]

Many veteran baseball reporters, including Buster Olney and others, have relayed the Boohols and Hamilton signings were ownership driven.

Sorry, I just don't believe everything I read. I choose to believe the experience of a seasoned reporter more than a PR statement from an owner.

[Lifetime]

October 29th 2011 the day Dipoto was hired; LA Times article,

 

Saturday's news conference to announce the hiring of Jerry Dipoto as the Angels' new general manager, it seemed clear who will be calling the shots in Anaheim.

And it won't be the manager many think is the de facto general manager, or the guy writing the checks.

"He has complete power," Angels owner Arte Moreno said of Dipoto, the former Arizona executive who signed a three-year contract with two option years to become the 11th general manager in franchise history. "I don't know when people started to think this was a one- or two-headed monster."

 

 

So these were all exclusively Dipoto's ideas to pursue Pujols, Hamilton and Wilson while Arte was in charge of the wooing. Ok got it.

uh, not sure what your argument is here hamiltown.

[Lifetime]

Many veteran baseball reporters, including Buster Olney and others, have relayed the Boohols and Hamilton signings were ownership driven.

Sorry, I just don't believe everything I read. I choose to believe the experience of a seasoned reporter more than a PR statement from an owner.

I love that, I mean reporters are a much more reliable source about trades and the goings on in the front office, right?

[Ohtaniland]

Many veteran baseball reporters, including Buster Olney and others, have relayed the Boohols and Hamilton signings were ownership driven.

Sorry, I just don't believe everything I read. I choose to believe the experience of a seasoned reporter more than a PR statement from an owner.

 

Always lots of he said, she said when failure happens.

[YouthofToday]

I love that, I mean reporters are a much more reliable source about trades and the goings on in the front office, right?

Not necessarily. However, you actually believe any statement about process from an organization? I certainly do not, outside of Ruben Amaro admitting he doesn't really have an advanced statistical team helping with decisions.

[sneaky_flute]

what would motivate arte moreno to make that statement? he would be throwing dipoto under the bus.

 

also, i don't think owners getting involved in operations is really that common.

[Halos of Anaheim]

Don't get me wrong, I'm siding with AJ on this one, trading for Greinke was a huge mistake.  But it's also the only realy blemish (outside of Blanton signing) that we've seen from Dipoto. 

 

But why was it a mistake?  SImple, when you have a package of prospects as valuable as Segura, Pena and Hellweg, you don't burn it on a 2-month rental.  You use that prospect package in the offseason to land you a major leaguer that you'd have for at least a year, possibly more.  The Angels didn't need to sign Josh Hamilton, they could've used those 3 prospects as something that'd get them into the Justin Upton trade conversation.  We knew Arizona was in the market for a SS and they ended up trading Bauer for Gregorious.  

 

All things considered, Segura, Hellweg, Pena and someone like Grichuk probably would've netted the Angels Upton. 

I love how every person in here who is arguing for Dipoto/Arte's case ignored this post. Thinking about this possibility cuts so deep. Having Upton would have been great, but imagine if we had Bauer for the next 4-5 years as our 2-3 pitcher. 

[Lifetime]

Folks in the baseball industry knew what the free agent market was going to be last season, and in futures seasons. To claim we didn't know Greinke would get that kind of money is a damning indictment against the competency of the Angels FO.

Peter Angelos is probably the only owner in MLB who is more involved in player personal decisions than Arte Moreno. Heck, even Cashman has more influence with the Steinbrenner family now than Dipoto with Moreno.

Moreno is the problem IMO. He doesn't have the expertise or wisdom to get involved as much as he does in player personnel and development issues. Of course his opinion matters -- he's the owner. However, it is quite clear to me Arte, despite his willingness to break even or loss money every year -- excluding the appreciating increase of the asset (organization) if would wish to sell the team -- is part of the problem.

you have zero substantiation for these assertions.

 

first, yes everyone knew that Grienke's price was going to be high. The Angels were hoping Grienke would put them over the top and get them to the playoffs and it damn near worked. If it had, I'm sure they figured it would be easier for them to negotiate with Grienke in order to keep him. As it is, they didn't make the playoffs afterall and then the new money infused ownership pushed Grienke's price well above what everyone was expecting.

 

Second, there is nothing to support your assertion that Arte is more involved in player decisions or development than other owners or even that he plays a significant role in any of of that.

 

Not necessarily. However, you actually believe any statement about process from an organization? I certainly do not, outside of Ruben Amaro admitting he doesn't really have an advanced statistical team helping with decisions.

So you believe what supports your assumptions and ignore the rest in favor of someone else that does share your assumption or at least implies in the same direction.

[YouthofToday]

Exactly. Just because Segura was SOL with Aybar and Kendrick locked up doesn't mean you waste the few remaining prospects of any value left in the system for a 2 month rental down 4 games in the division.

If this was a Dipoto led decision I question his process and would advocate for his removal.