Bridwell vs Lackey rookie seasons

[Angelsjunky]

Bridwell had a 4.84 FIP this year, which is a decent indicator of what to expect going forward, or at least next year. In my view, his ceiling is a #4 starter, maybe an ERA in the 4.00-4.50 range. I'd be very surprised if he had an ERA below 4.00 next year. I'm thinking more in the 4.20-4.60 range.

[JustATroutFan]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Bridwell had a 4.84 FIP this year, which is a decent indicator of what to expect going forward, or at least next year. In my view, his ceiling is a #4 starter, maybe an ERA in the 4.00-4.50 range. I'd be very surprised if he had an ERA below 4.00 next year. I'm thinking more in the 4.20-4.60 range.

A lot star pitchers outperform their FIP like every year. Cueto and Weaver are two great examples but they never had an FIP close to 5 in any of their good years, though. So, Bridwell might be in for some rude awakening eventually.

[Taylor]

Bridwell isn't quite the headcase Lackey was. Lackey had Ervin Santana-esque moments where he'd let one bad play or bad call ruin his performance. No one would say, "Bridwell needs to STFU and just pitch."

[IEAngelsfan]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

Bridwell isn't quite the headcase Lackey was. Lackey had Ervin Santana-esque moments where he'd let one bad play or bad call ruin his performance. No one would say, "Bridwell needs to STFU and just pitch."

Yup, Bridwell doesn't horse around.

[UndertheHalo]

10 hours ago, Adam said:

Bridwell had better gate speed and handled the turns with more grace. 

this is extremely well played.  Bravo.

but yea, Lackey's pedigree made him a more true thoroughbred.

[Pujols4MVP]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Bridwell had a 4.84 FIP this year, which is a decent indicator of what to expect going forward, or at least next year. In my view, his ceiling is a #4 starter, maybe an ERA in the 4.00-4.50 range. I'd be very surprised if he had an ERA below 4.00 next year. I'm thinking more in the 4.20-4.60 range.

Thats what i'm thinking too, a right handed Joe Saunders. I'd be happy with 200 IP 4.25 ERA.

[Billy_Ball]

Talk about low K totals, anyone remember Joe Grahe?  I think he had like 39 Ks in 94 innings with 21 saves in 1992.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, IEAngelsfan said:

Yup, Bridwell doesn't horse around.

I see what you did there, HORSE around, because Lackey had a long face like a horse.

[tdawg87]

21 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I see what you did there, HORSE around, because Lackey had a long face like a horse.

Ugh

[wopphil]

There is actually a singer named Ben Bridwell whose band was named Band of Horses. For real.

[WeatherWonk]

4 hours ago, Taylor said:

Bridwell isn't quite the headcase Lackey was. Lackey had Ervin Santana-esque moments where he'd let one bad play or bad call ruin his performance. No one would say, "Bridwell needs to STFU and just pitch."

Make that "...the headcase Lackey still IS".

Lackey just got tossed a couple starts ago. Along with his catcher, I believe.

Same old John. Glaring at the home plate ump and then challenging his calls. 0 to boiling in 3.2 seconds.

[GrittyVeterans]

6 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Make that "...the headcase Lackey still IS".

Lackey just got tossed a couple starts ago. Along with his catcher, I believe.

Same old John. Glaring at the home plate ump and then challenging his calls. 0 to boiling in 3.2 seconds.

That headcase has been one of the best big game pitchers in the last generation (other than Bumgarner, Schilling, maybe a few others)

This team needs a few more headcases like him

[Docwaukee]

Fair amount of smoke a mirrors for Bridwell.   He was remarkably effective without the strikeout.  Most assume that will regress but he had a solid amount of swing and miss during his minor league career.  Instead of his era regressing to the mean, why can't his k's progress to the mean?  He's got good velo and solid secondary pitches.  Yeah, he likely ends up a 4/5, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up getting better.   But yes, Lackey had better stuff.  

[Bull58]

Between Bridwell and Lackey, there's one thing that's better about Bridwell then Lackey, he doesn't have that shitty temper that John has that makes him get tossed from games. Other then that Lackey was good.

[arch stanton]

I'm going out on a limb and saying the juiced ball disappears next year which can only help him since he gets a fair number of fly ball outs and gave up a few HRs

[Bull58]

 

Found this, very entertaining

[Inside Pitch]

On 10/2/2017 at 11:52 AM, happybat4 said:

You are also comparing different ERAs. 3 ERA was much better in 2002 than it is today.

ERA+ numbers where a lot closer than I would have thought -- Lackey came in at 121..  Bridwell, 117.    Their FIP were about a run different -- but it's too early to say whether or not Bridwell fluked his way through or if he's one of those guys who routinely outperforms his FIP.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 10/3/2017 at 12:43 AM, Dochalo said:

Fair amount of smoke a mirrors for Bridwell.   He was remarkably effective without the strikeout.  Most assume that will regress but he had a solid amount of swing and miss during his minor league career.  Instead of his era regressing to the mean, why can't his k's progress to the mean?  He's got good velo and solid secondary pitches.  Yeah, he likely ends up a 4/5, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up getting better.   But yes, Lackey had better stuff.  

I was going to say something similar. He won't out perform his FIP by that much going forward, but it's not a stretch to think his FIP could 'progress' toward his era. Variance in small samples doesn't have to go in one direction.

[Pujols4MVP]

Anyways Lackey's retiring after the playoffs they say, Jon Lester pretty much said it in his speech when the Cubs clinched.

How many active pitchers have pitched in 3 different WS & won the deciding game in 2 of them ?

He may have a bad temper but his post season career ERA of 3.27 in 140 innings & only 6 HRs allowed in his post season career.

Too bad the Angels don't have a guy like that around, also one that can get the team fired up to care more about winning.

 

[Billy_Ball]

Lackey regressed in his 2nd season (10-16, 4.63 ERA), he also pitched poorly for Boston in 2010 and 2011 before getting TJ.  We'll see how Bridwell does.  I would say as on right now he's penciled in as #2 behind GRich (before any offseason moves.)

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Scioscia4MVP said:

Too bad the Angels don't have a guy like that around, also one that can get the team fired up to care more about winning

The Angels' problem in 2017 wasn't a lack of "fire." It was a lack of talent. Adding a hothead into the mix wouldn't have made a difference.

[stormngt]

On 10/2/2017 at 11:02 PM, GrittyVeterans said:

That headcase has been one of the best big game pitchers in the last generation (other than Bumgarner, Schilling, maybe a few others)

This team needs a few more headcases like him

absolutely!

[Blarg]

The difference between Lackey and the 2002 Angels and Bridwell with the 2017 Angels is about 140 extra offensive runs scored.

It has got to be a lot easier to pitch knowing you will have run support instead of being on a tightrope every night thinking you've got to put zeros on the board to have a chance for a no decision. 

I think Bridwell out performed Lackey in that respect. 

[Pujols4MVP]

The Angels seem like they have alot less personality without Lackey, Vlad & Hunter.

Vlad with how he was always laughing & smiling, Lackey with how fired up he got after he striked someone out, Hunter with how outgoing his personality was etc).

[Blarg]

Nothing, absolutely nothing in Angels history matches this.