Remember when....

[Chuck]

The Angels would come from behind to win ball games late and when they would hold their own without Trout in the lineup?

Those were good times. 

[tdawg87]

You had to know they'd start shitting themselves right when Trout is about to come back.

[Chuck]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

You had to know they'd start shitting themselves right when Trout is about to come back.

I was fearful of this. 

This team... ugh

[Ohtaniland]

59 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I was fearful of this. 

This team... ugh

I'm confident that you already knew. It's not your first rodeo. 

[Farmbuildingfan]

This is the first time in a while the Angels have dipped to two games under .500,

It's the first time in a while they have lost five of six.

Is this the beginning of reality setting in after  half a season of overachievment?

[fan_since79]

Everyone should just calm down and remain positive. Every team goes through a five-to-seven year rebuild at some point.

You know, we did win a World Series. Now when was that again....

[Farmbuildingfan]

Rebuilding is a philosophy that only the Disney ownership seemed to have.

I need more evidence that the Angels are rebuilding.

I do see evidence from the pitching side, but not the offense side.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

Rebuilding is a philosophy that only the Disney ownership seemed to have.

I need more evidence that the Angels are rebuilding.

I do see evidence from the pitching side, but not the offense side.

When you say crap like this I question if you actually were a fan during the Disney era...  because you didn't see any rebuilding at the MLB level with Disney, it was all in the minors...  same as now... Seriously -- the Disney era Angels and the WS team were not the end result of a rebuild but rather the maturation of what they already had coupled with the infusion of a few key pieces.  

So if you're looking for rebuilding -- look in the minors, because that's where the future lies, not at the MLB level where the team is merely trying to bridge the gap to a brighter future. 

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Everyone should just calm down and remain positive. Every team goes through a five-to-seven year rebuild at some point.

You know, we did win a World Series. Now when was that again....

Everyone, particularly people talking about rebuilding and the future should be welcoming a long losing streak that essentially takes them out of contention and allows for easier decisions to be made by the front office...   They go 1-9 and then it gets a lot easier to talk sell than being a game out of the WC with guys on the mend..

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

When you say crap like this I question if you actually were a fan during the Disney era...     Because you didn't see any rebuilding at the MLB level with Disney, it was all in the minors...  same as now... Seriously -- the Disney era Angels and the WS team were not the end result of a rebuild but rather a maturation of what they already had infused by a few key pieces.  

So if you're looking for rebuilding -- look in the minors, because that's where the future lies, not at the MLB level where the team is merely trying to bridge the gap to a brighter future. 

Not to beat a dead horse,  but this quiet rebuild weve been doing for rhe past few years would probably look a lot better if dipo and company hadnt drafted so poorly.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

Not to beat a dead horse,  but this quiet rebuild weve been doing for rhe past few years would probably look a lot better if dipo and company hadnt drafted so poorly.

Yeah...  of the 12 top fWAR players on the current roster,10 are Eppler additions.  It's going to take a little time to undo the damage done by the Reagins/Dipoto front offices.

[Troll Daddy]

This place would never survive a full rebuild 

[thebloob]

Will mike trout join the list of greatest players never to have won s World Series?   Maybe he is the next ted Williams. 

[maximus p]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Everyone, particularly people talking about rebuilding and the future should be welcoming a long losing streak that essentially takes them out of contention and allows for easier decisions to be made by the front office...   They go 1-9 and then it gets a lot easier to talk sell than being a game out of the WC with guys on the mend..

Well, we're more than halfway there...

[Docwaukee]

I don't look forward to them losing by any means.  But if they're going to do it where it puts them out of contention, then better now than a month from now.   

The only problem is that I think most here are going to have a different definition of 'still in it' than the front office.  

5 or more out of the second WC and a few games below .500?  Sell.  

But I don't think they will if that's where we're at.  

So if we're gonna tank, we need some help from teams like KC and MIN.  

[UndertheHalo]

I'd rather suck and get better draft picks then float around .500 

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Everyone should just calm down and remain positive. Every team goes through a five-to-seven year rebuild at some point.

You know, we did win a World Series. Now when was that again....

When Mike Trout was 11 years old.

[Angel Oracle]

Too many tough games in a row vs Houston, the Skanks, the Red Sux, and the Dogs, on top of all of the injuries, had to take something out of them.   The ASB is coming at a perfect time.

[Farmbuildingfan]

13 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

When you say crap like this I question if you actually were a fan during the Disney era...  because you didn't see any rebuilding at the MLB level with Disney, it was all in the minors...  same as now... Seriously -- the Disney era Angels and the WS team were not the end result of a rebuild but rather the maturation of what they already had coupled with the infusion of a few key pieces.  

So if you're looking for rebuilding -- look in the minors, because that's where the future lies, not at the MLB level where the team is merely trying to bridge the gap to a brighter future. 

I am referring to the minors

Going from the #1 ranked farm system to #30 in a relatively short time does not demontrate rebuilding

[Docwaukee]

8 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

When Mike Trout was 11 years old.

Trout was a big Yankee fan and Yankee fans hated us for quite a stretch during the early 2000's because we owned them.  

In all likelihood, Mike Trout hated the Angels.  

[krAbs]

19 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Everyone should just calm down and remain positive. Every team goes through a five-to-seven year rebuild at some point.

You know, we did win a World Series. Now when was that again....

^^I feel like you're being sarcastic, but...if there are 30 teams in baseball, that means that the chances of a given team winning the world series in a given year is 1/30. Or, you would expect an average team to win one world series every 30 years (this doesn't mean every 30 years you will go to the playoffs, cuz thats not how statistics work, but this is a baseball form so I'm sure everyone here understands that). By that metric, our last 30 years have been fairly average, which a WS coming almost in the center of that period. Also, 15 teams are in the American League, and 5 teams in the AL go to the playoffs, so you would give each team about a 33% probability of making it to the playoffs. Or, to put it another way, in a given 3 year stretch, you would expect a team to go to the playoffs once. In our last 3 years, we've gotten to the playoffs once, so we are again average. in the 2000's, we have gotten to the playoffs 7 times in 16 chances, so we are actually doing pretty dang well in this century so far (~2 more appearances than you would expect from a randomly selected team). Over the 30 year stretch I mentioned before, we have gotten to the playoffs 8 times, making us slightly (2 games) below average. So, not shockingly...we are trending up as a team, but still at best on the upper side of average, while having fairly normal rebuild cycles and playoff appearances/results (though, with a couple exceptions, we haven't done great in the playoffs).

 

TL;DR: If the goal is average, the Angels are fine. If the goal is good, we have work to do. No one should be TOO shocked at that.

[UndertheHalo]

30 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Trout was a big Yankee fan and Yankee fans hated us for quite a stretch during the early 2000's because we owned them.  

In all likelihood, Mike Trout hated the Angels.  

I thought he was a phillies fan. 

[Inside Pitch]

40 minutes ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

I am referring to the minors

Going from the #1 ranked farm system to #30 in a relatively short time does not demontrate rebuilding

The Angels were ranked 30th by BBA in 1999 -- they were then ranked number one overall in 2005 -- two years after Disney had sold but they deserve the credit for giving Stoneman the assets to turn it all around.  They weren't ranked 30th again until 2014 -- they were in fact ranked as high as 16th as late as 2012 ... 9 years is not a short period of time in MLB... 

More importantly... you seem to be arguing that they aren't in the process of attempting a similar rebuild.  A person has to stick their head really deeply into a hole to pretend there hasn't been a dramatic change of course in how this team operates, particularly in the minor leagues.   Eppler has a harder road ahead of him than Stoneman did.  There are limits as to what teams can spend both internationally and in the draft.  There are penalties in place that didn't exist -- there are no more draft and follow picks.  But there is no denying the farm is being rebuilt.    

You're putting the sins of the previous regimes on Eppler while simultaneously ignoring the work he's done to right the ship.  It's not going to get fixed overnight.

[Farmbuildingfan]

55 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The Angels were ranked 30th by BBA in 1999 -- they were then ranked number one overall in 2005 -- two years after Disney had sold but they deserve the credit for giving Stoneman the assets to turn it all around.  They weren't ranked 30th again until 2014 -- they were in fact ranked as high as 16th as late as 2012 ... 9 years is not a short period of time in MLB... 

More importantly... you seem to be arguing that they aren't in the process of attempting a similar rebuild.  A person has to stick their head really deeply into a hole to pretend there hasn't been a dramatic change of course in how this team operates, particularly in the minor leagues.   Eppler has a harder road ahead of him than Stoneman did.  There are limits as to what teams can spend both internationally and in the draft.  There are penalties in place that didn't exist -- there are no more draft and follow picks.  But there is no denying the farm is being rebuilt.    

You're putting the sins of the previous regimes on Eppler while simultaneously ignoring the work he's done to right the ship.  It's not going to get fixed overnight.

I do give credit where it is do. The Angels would have one of the better staffs in baseball if not for the unprecedented injuries.

However, I readily admit that my cynicism  still exists largely do to a lack of trust for Moreno.

The Pujols. Hamilton. Wells, and Greinke  acquisitions still disturb me.

Rational organizations don't do these things..

I am not concerned with Eppier. He is sure a better choice than Dipoto.

Yet when Dipoto was with Arizona, he made a good deal for Arizona that hurt the Angels. Then next year he comes to the Angels and makes another trade that hurt the Angels.

This makes me think that Dipoto was doing Moreno's bidding.

Thank goodness we now have Eppier instead.

You are correct that this will not get fixed overnight, but we also will not know how much wiser the organization has become overnight  either.

If the Angels keep getting younger and better, my cynicism will fade. 

 

 

[eaterfan]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

The Angels were ranked 30th by BBA in 1999 -- they were then ranked number one overall in 2005 -- two years after Disney had sold but they deserve the credit for giving Stoneman the assets to turn it all around.  They weren't ranked 30th again until 2014 -- they were in fact ranked as high as 16th as late as 2012 ... 9 years is not a short period of time in MLB... 

More importantly... you seem to be arguing that they aren't in the process of attempting a similar rebuild.  A person has to stick their head really deeply into a hole to pretend there hasn't been a dramatic change of course in how this team operates, particularly in the minor leagues.   Eppler has a harder road ahead of him than Stoneman did.  There are limits as to what teams can spend both internationally and in the draft.  There are penalties in place that didn't exist -- there are no more draft and follow picks.  But there is no denying the farm is being rebuilt.    

You're putting the sins of the previous regimes on Eppler while simultaneously ignoring the work he's done to right the ship.  It's not going to get fixed overnight.

Perfectly said. Additionally, Eppler has done a fantastic job patching together a competitive club without jeopardizing the rebuilding process and sucking to a strict budget. Granted, a lot of it is Trout, but he's doing plenty of steals in the bargain bin. You can't take away the good Trip does without acknowledging the damage the Pujols and Hamilton contacts are doing/have done.