We missed the brothers in Boston, but we got this guy!

[Futch Winkleman]

So, this is the second time in about a month that I've been in agreement with Lifetime in a gun thread.

 

This can only mean one thing: One of us has a pretty severe head injury.

[Futch Winkleman]

Gun control advocates are myopically viewing guns as the end all be all of deaths in this country.   A kid is killed by a person texting while driving ... meh.  A kid is killed by a gun ... all hands on deck!

 

HYPERBOLE ALERT!!!!

 

HYPERBOLE ALERT!!!!

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

A zero tolerance policy leaves no room for grace or a second chance hence the words zero tolerance.  Again you're ignoring the fact it's illegal to have a gun on school grounds whether it's loaded, unloaded or legally owned.  This isn't about being a hard ass it's about kids who brings guns and knives to school putting others in danger.  The schools have a zero tolerance policy because this isn't even a topic they can allow to be remotely close to a grey area. 

[nate]

Crap, what a group of hardasses.  He was trying to do the right thing.  I made a mistake.  Willfully breaking a rule should be dealt with differently than making a mistake and getting caught in the midst of trying to fix the said mistake.

 

Minors smoking=illegal

Minors drinking=illegal

minors owning guns=legal

 

You guys are leaving no room for grace or a second chance.  It's rigid, wooden and graceless.

 

Smoking is legal for 18 year olds and it is still forbidden by zero tolerance, all weapons including guns are also forbidden.  Also, if you don't have zero tolerance it opens the excuses that it is the parents fault or someone else's fault.  Love how everyone believes his story.

[Lifetime]

Crap, what a group of hardasses.  He was trying to do the right thing.  I made a mistake.  Willfully breaking a rule should be dealt with differently than making a mistake and getting caught in the midst of trying to fix the said mistake.

 

Minors smoking=illegal

Minors drinking=illegal

minors owning guns=legal

 

You guys are leaving no room for grace or a second chance.  It's rigid, wooden and graceless.

The issue is not a minor owning a gun. The issue is taking that gun to a place where guns are strictly prohibited. It's illegal to have a gun in school irregardless of whether it's legal to own one. 

[saangels]

Clearly some of you do not understand what zero tolerance is...

I know what zero tolerance means.  I'm pretty sure that you know what it means, too, Nate.  I'm not trying to call you out.  Even though I disagree with you on this particular issue, I understand the logic behind your opinion.  My point is that I don't see any logic in the school or the local government policy. 

 

Per the article: "The Johnston County Sheriff's Office told ABC11 that if a school administrator brings a gun to school, they will be charged with a misdemeanor. For a student, the charge is an automatic felony."  

 

Why?  It's a double standard.  If the guns are both registered to adults, what's the difference if one is an administrator and the other one is a student?  They have to adhere to the same laws off campus, don't they?  Why does everything suddenly change when they step onto school property?

[nate]

My favorite thing about this is MT is so against bullying even though cracking down on bullying is a clear violation of our first amendment rights.  When it comes to gun control we are stripping him of his second amendment rights and he is super offended.  You can't have it both ways.

[mtangelsfan]

The issue is not a minor owning a gun. The issue is taking that gun to a place where guns are strictly prohibited. It's illegal to have a gun in school irregardless of whether it's legal to own one. 

 

and you think he should be charged with a felony?  Do you honestly believe that a kid who simply forgot something, that is legal by the way, should be charged like that?

 

Crap, the world has gone frickin' crazy. 

[Lifetime]

Two separate issues SA. Zero tolerance is a school policy. Misdemeanor or felony is a municipal legal issue. Regardless of how the student would be charged, the school's zero tolerance is a separate issue. 

[Lifetime]

and you think he should be charged with a felony?  Do you honestly believe that a kid who simply forgot something, that is legal by the way, should be charged like that?

 

Crap, the world has gone frickin' crazy. 

I'm not entirely sure the story the kid is telling is truthful but If that's the law, that's what he is going to be charged with. Doesn't mean he will ultimately be prosecuted that way. But that is a separate issue from the zero tolerance policy. 

[arch stanton]

Here's the kicker. If he gets convicted or pleads out to a charge carrying a 1 year prison term then he can no longer legally purchase a firearm.

[mtangelsfan]

My favorite thing about this is MT is so against bullying even though cracking down on bullying is a clear violation of our first amendment rights.  When it comes to gun control we are stripping him of his second amendment rights and he is super offended.  You can't have it both ways.

 

I might leave that discussion alone man.  I could easily say the opposite regarding you.  My point about bullying was that they have zero tolerence policies that are rarely implemented.  I should know, my autistic son has suffered from it for years.  By the way, I don't see how pushing kids down or knocking them off a jungle gym is protected by the first ammendment.

[Lifetime]

My favorite thing about this is MT is so against bullying even though cracking down on bullying is a clear violation of our first amendment rights.  When it comes to gun control we are stripping him of his second amendment rights and he is super offended.  You can't have it both ways.

Cracking down on bullying is a violation of our First Amendment rights? LOL how do you figure? 

[saangels]

Two separate issues SA. Zero tolerance is a school policy. Misdemeanor or felony is a municipal legal issue. Regardless of how the student would be charged, the school's zero tolerance is a separate issue. 

Yes, they are separate issues.  But if you notice, in both cases, the administrator got off with a lesser penalty for committing the exact same offense.  That doesn't make any sense to me.    

[mtangelsfan]

I'm not entirely sure the story the kid is telling is truthful but If that's the law, that's what he is going to be charged with. Doesn't mean he will ultimately be prosecuted that way. But that is a separate issue from the zero tolerance policy. 

I forgot to add, "irregardless" is not a word.  

[Futch Winkleman]

Here's the kicker. If he gets convicted or pleads out to a charge carrying a 1 year prison term then he can no longer legally purchase a firearm.

 

Oh no!!  An irresponsible gun owner can no longer legally purchase a firearm!

 

The horror!!!

[nate]

Cracking down on bullying is a violation of our First Amendment rights? LOL how do you figure? 

 

Freedom of speech.  I can call you a dumb scrawny little shit all I want, it is protected by the first amendment.

 

Physical bullying is different but they frequently say that the verbal abuse is far worse than the physical abuse.

[Lifetime]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

I forgot to add, "irregardless" is not a word.  

[mtangelsfan]

Man nate, I don't know what is going on with you. 

[nate]

To be clear I am not calling anyone a scrawny little shit.  I am using it as an example of verbal abuse that is protected by the first amendment.

[Lifetime]

Freedom of speech.  I can call you a dumb scrawny little shit all I want, it is protected by the first amendment.

 

Physical bullying is different but they frequently say that the verbal abuse is far worse than the physical abuse.

Verbal abuse and bullying is not protected by the First Amendment. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure that's not true.  Slander, threats, etc aren't protected and neither is violating someone elses rights or safety which can be done verbally.     

 

Edit - LT beat me to it.

[nate]

And the second amendment does not specify that you can own as many guns as you want including assault rifles, etc.

[saangels]

Yes, they are separate issues.  But if you notice, in both cases, the administrator got off with a lesser penalty for committing the exact same offense.  That doesn't make any sense to me.    

Upon further review, I see that the administrator didn't receive any criminal charges.  Not even a misdemeanor!  Yet the student (who owned the gun, and had it legally registered under his name) gets kicked out of school and is looking at a potential felony on his record.  That is insane.  I'm not so much arguing for the kid, or for his right to bring a gun to school, as I am pleading for consistency. 

[Lifetime]

And the second amendment does not specify that you can own as many guns as you want including assault rifles, etc.

uh, so what? relevance?