Lead off hitter

[Hufflepuff]

I find it interesting that Joe Madden is saying he's gonna use Schwarber to lead off, and terry Francona using Santana. Maybe Scocia should consider using our best hitter to lead off. After all the lead off hitter will get the most AB's. 

[Stradling]

I don't think Schwarber or Santana are their best hitters.  I would prefer to put Trout batting 2nd, I think Scioscia will bat him 3rd.  

[totdprods]

I like Trout where he is now. We need him to anchor the line-up and drive in runs, and until we get some consistency from Cron, Pujols, or Calhoun, he needs to remain there. I couldn't tell you how, but I would love to see him return to the #2 spot at some point before his current contract expires in Anaheim, simply because I think his consistency would bode well as a table-setter still. I can't really see that happening with this current team unless Cron blossoms into a true annual .285/30/100 guy, Pujols is still providing a .265/30/100 to match, and Simmons or Maybin or whomever turns into a true lead-off hitter. 

Let's just go crazy for a moment and imagine all that becomes reality over the course of '17, and we go into 2018 with a line-up like this:

Maybin LF .300/.360/.400/.760 
Trout CF .320/.430/.590/1.020
Cron 1B .285/.340/.530/.870
Pujols DH .275/.335/.490/.825
Calhoun RF .275/.345/.440/.785
Marte 3B .250/.310/.480/.790
Wieters C .260/.320/.415/.735
Espinosa 2B .240/.320/.400/.720
Simmons SS .300/.350/.400/.750

Obviously, we've extended Espinosa and Maybin and signed Wieters
Power up and down the line-up, decent OBP, Simmons as the infamous 'second lead-off hitter' at the #9 hole, lefties, righties, switch hitters, seven guys with 20+ HR potential..... sigh. Best part of none of that is really too far out of the realm of possibility.

[ScottT]

You should have at least one good on base guy in front of Trout... and a good on base guy probably shouldnt be batting ninth... unless your lineup is loaded... which isnt the case with the Angels 

[ScottT]

Anything but 2nd or 3rd would be silly.  

[Ohtaniland]

2 hours ago, Hufflepuff said:

I find it interesting that Joe Madden is saying he's gonna use Schwarber to lead off, and terry Francona using Santana. Maybe Scocia should consider using our best hitter to lead off. After all the lead off hitter will get the most AB's. 

Pujols hitting 2nd would be a disaster.

[Docwaukee]

zobrist should be leading off for the cubs.  

Escobar leading off makes the most sense for the halos.  then Trout, Pu, Cal.  Then some combo of Cron, Maybin, Simmons, Maldonado, and Espinosa.  

[Rico]

It's not all just about getting Trout the most AB's.  You want guys on base when your best hitter comes up.  Trout should be locked in at the third spot with Escobar and Maybin/Calhoun/Revere ahead of him.

[Stradling]

I disagree, obviously if both Maybin and Escobar have years like last year with high OBP then I would be in agreement.  However I think if you put Escobar leading off, Trout 2nd and Maybin 9th, then you get the same thing but with the added benefit of Trout getting an extra 15 or so at bats in the season.  

[totdprods]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I disagree, obviously if both Maybin and Escobar have years like last year with high OBP then I would be in agreement.  However I think if you put Escobar leading off, Trout 2nd and Maybin 9th, then you get the same thing but with the added benefit of Trout getting an extra 15 or so at bats in the season.  

Alternately, Cron and Pujols can both play to their peak for a full season, it could have the same affect if Maybin/Escobar aren't pulling off the high OBP. Trout is relied upon a bit to be the #3 hitter because no one else really can. 

I like that both Pujols and Cron are pretty high contact hitters for being big power guys. If they're performing at their peak, then Trout's speed/OBP value increases and him bumping back up to #2 probably is the best fit. 

[Troll Daddy]

The problem with batting Trout second is Cron nor Pujols should be batting third. 

[arch stanton]

I think Sosh likes having Trout in between Calhoun and Pujols and they'll be the 2-3-4 and the rest of the lineup gets shaped around that.

[Docwaukee]

having high obp guys in front of Trout actually works to s disadvantage for him as a hitter but it's obviously an advantage to the team especially if the guys behind him can do well.  

Trout walked 116 times last year.  A career high.  He had a .550 slg%.  The lowest of his career.  There isn't a player in baseball that you wouldn't rather face over Trout so no matter who is behind him, he is going to get walked a ton.  The propensity for such increases as his opportunities with guys on base or in scoring position increase.  The more likely the situation is there for him to do damage, the more likely the other team is going to try to mitigate that by suppressing his power.  Teams traded a Mike Trout walk for the alternative all year and it was more prevalent than ever because Escobar and Calhoun both got on base in front of him.  

So you have to ask yourself what is best for the offense because I see Trout getting walked at least as often as he did last year.  But you still want to take advantage of his 30/30 potential.  No matter what, Albert is going to be hitting behind him.  Personally, I would like to see Kole hitting 4th and Trout 2nd.  But I don't think it makes a huge difference to the end result if Kole hits 2nd and Trout 3rd.  

We had the lowest k% as a team in all of baseball last year and that should continue although Espinosa is going to put a nice little dent in that.  

While I agree 'protection' in any given lineup isn't a thing, I do think who you have hitting before or after you does has an impact on the overall outcome.  But it's probably splitting hairs to think any considerable impact would occur by shuffling Trout from 3rd to 2nd considering that everyone else is going to be the same otherwise.  

I think Simmons becomes an interesting wild card in this.  I am very curious to see if his second half (actually his final 340 pa of his 480 total) is legit.  He's had an oddly low BABIP for his career (.274) and during his good stretch last year it was .337.  If that .300+ avg is sustainable, and his k/bb ratio stay near 1/1, he actually becomes somewhat Escobar like with a bit more power.  I could see him being moved into the #2 spot if that holds.  

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

The problem with batting Trout second is Cron nor Pujols should be batting third. 

That's why he isn't batting second right now. It'd take a change in Pujols (either being fully recovered and playing at his absolute peak) or Cron taking the next step. If Cron became Billy Butler 2.0 and became a high average, low K, doubles and homer machine, he'd be a pretty good #3 hitter with Pujols behind him. 

[totdprods]

51 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

We had the lowest k% as a team in all of baseball last year and that should continue although Espinosa is going to put a nice little dent in that.  

I think Simmons becomes an interesting wild card in this.  I am very curious to see if his second half (actually his final 340 pa of his 480 total) is legit.  He's had an oddly low BABIP for his career (.274) and during his good stretch last year it was .337.  If that .300+ avg is sustainable, and his k/bb ratio stay near 1/1, he actually becomes somewhat Escobar like with a bit more power.  I could see him being moved into the #2 spot if that holds.  

Bright side is we were lowest in Ks by an extremely wide margin. Big change for the team and I think with the additional speed we've brought in with Maybin, Revere, and Espinosa, that's going to have a big impact. Eppler wants a team that puts the ball in play. 

Simmons is a huge wild card, and he's at an age where it isn't unrealistic that he takes a significant step forward offensively - batting average, OBP, power, a combo of all three. He could become a true .300+ hitter very quickly, and his low K% indicates he has a very good sense of the strike zone. A little discipline and his BA and OBP could skyrocket.

My big fear with Simmons, and this is why I advocated holding onto Escobar to at least start 2017, is that by moving him up, we go and force him to be something he isn't, and rely on him as a #1 or #2 hitter prematurely and it backfires. Sort of like when we tried to turn Erick Aybar into a leadoff hitter. I think we should keep him at the back of the line-up for the first half of the year, see if he has truly turned a corner and shows that consistency, and then play around with him here and there based off match-ups. If and when Escobar/Maybin/Revere get hurt, traded, or become ineffective, or if the team is just totally out of contention, take the experiment to the next step and let him finish the year there. As it stands right now, we need a lead-off hitter in 2018, and Simmons is probably our best bet to fill that role. I just hope we don't rush that decision or assume anything.

[eligrba]

Seems to me the challenge is to prevent everyone not named Trout from not limiting Trout's offensive capabilities.  Whatever lineup does that, is the one that should be used.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

That's why he isn't batting second right now. It'd take a change in Pujols (either being fully recovered and playing at his absolute peak) or Cron taking the next step. If Cron became Billy Butler 2.0 and became a high average, low K, doubles and homer machine, he'd be a pretty good #3 hitter with Pujols behind him. 

Honestly, all it would take is for Albert to take what the defense is giving him.  At times last year, usually when he was on one of his hot streaks, he was doing just that.  Albert could easily hit third with Kole hitting behind him if Albert would simply poke it to right on the outside pitch with the severe shift.  If he does that his average is instantly is .280 minimum.  If they pitch him on the inside part of the plate, hopefully he gets some lift and drives it.  Him not pushing the ball to the right side is probably what frustrates me the most about him.  

[Angel Oracle]

I'd gladly settle for Pujols having an .825 OPS in 2017, granted he hasn't reached that since 2012.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Honestly, all it would take is for Albert to take what the defense is giving him.  At times last year, usually when he was on one of his hot streaks, he was doing just that.  Albert could easily hit third with Kole hitting behind him if Albert would simply poke it to right on the outside pitch with the severe shift.  If he does that his average is instantly is .280 minimum.  If they pitch him on the inside part of the plate, hopefully he gets some lift and drives it.  Him not pushing the ball to the right side is probably what frustrates me the most about him.  

Fingers crossed that we get at least two more years of at least the minimum he's done so far. 
I'd like to think that he's just truly been hurting an immense amount his entire time as an Angel. It's affected him day in and day out, and it's kept him from being who he really is capable of - even with his current decline.

And I hope that now, after having this plantar surgery on each foot, he's truly in the best health that he has been as an Angel. Obviously, he isn't in the best shape, and probably put on some pounds this winter not being able to work out as he preferred, but if both the Angels and Albert can get him to take things a little more slowly, rehab appropriately, get him to lose some weight and face some live pitching without hurrying him back onto the field, maybe we won't see a month of him flailing like that and he can step back into the line-up in early May actually healthy and pain-free and a few pounds lighter. I could see him returning to peak (Angels) Pujols for a couple years that way. 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'd gladly settle for Pujols having an .825 OPS in 2017, granted he hasn't reached that since 2012.

If you take out that first month of '16, he probably is pretty close to an .825. 
It's the optimist in me, but I truly think he is better than he's shown. He's just been too stubborn or foolish or unlucky to really get a full season where he either wasn't hobbled throughout the entire year or didn't rush back and fail to adjust for a month.

[Troll Daddy]

Doubtful will ever see Calhoun batting fourth nor should he be. 

Batting Trout second for extra AB's a season doesn't make sense. The games are played one at a time. Why mess with success. 

Sign Bautista then bat Trout second

[Troutstanding]

Batting Trout 2nd is not only to get him more AB's, but also because batting him third will bring him to the plate with none on and 2 outs more often than any other spot in the order. A batter with a low OBP but high slugging is suitable to plug here, not Trout. Trout's high OBP, high slugging combo is both rare and ideal for the two-hole, which is the most impactful spot in the order. 

[Oz27]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

While I agree 'protection' in any given lineup isn't a thing, I do think who you have hitting before or after you does has an impact on the overall outcome.  But it's probably splitting hairs to think any considerable impact would occur by shuffling Trout from 3rd to 2nd considering that everyone else is going to be the same otherwise. 

Even if it only gets Trout an extra 15-20 PAs over the course of a season, the gap between Trout and anyone else on our team is huge. Him taking 15-20 PAs off anyone else is a noticeable boost.

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Batting Trout second for extra AB's a season doesn't make sense. The games are played one at a time. Why mess with success.

What the f**k does this even mean? It's roughly as insightful as your "coming to spring training ready to compete" gem from the other day.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

You need to STFU and let other fans have their own opinions.

now go away 

You said something stupid and inaccurate so why get upset when you get called out for it?  

[Troll Daddy]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You said something stupid and inaccurate so why get upset when you get called out for it?  

It's my opinion and as usual he was being a ass about it.