Presidential Pardons

[NJHalo]

Obama just opened the floodgates and pardoned and/or commuted sentences for a record number of criminals.

What does everyone think of this ability of the president to be above the law and pass judgment? (Not just Obama)

Between this and sanctuary cities, what is that saying for respecting our laws? We can pick and choose which laws to obey and enforce?

[Make Angels Great Again]

Should be a tool used incredibly rarely imo, only in very special circumstances with a justifiable means. Like Snowden for example.

[red321]

37 minutes ago, NJHalo said:

What does everyone think of this ability of the president to be above the law and pass judgment? (Not just Obama)

above the law? Seems pretty cut and dried.

 

The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1 The power to pardon is one of the least limited powers granted to the President in the Constitution. The only limits mentioned in the Constitution are that pardons are limited to offenses against the United States (i.e., not civil or state cases), and that they cannot affect an impeachment process. A reprieve is the commutation or lessening of a sentence already imposed; it does not affect the legal guilt of a person. A pardon, however, completely wipes out the legal effects of a conviction. A pardon can be issued from the time an offense is committed, and can even be issued after the full sentence has been served. It cannot, however, be granted before an offense has been committed, which would give the President the power to waive the laws.

 

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/2/essays/89/pardon-power

[Ordos]

How many of those pardons were from laws that are no longer enforced the same way? Example, if someone is locked up for a marijuana offense that is no longer punished the same way in California? It's the remaining ones after those are factored out that concern me more.

That said, the ability for any President to be above the law in other ways is quite troubling.

[Adam]

I'm a fan of it. While I haven't (and won't) review every case, he pardoned a lot of folks who were absolutely over-punished. 

[red321]

4 minutes ago, Adam said:

I'm a fan of it. While I haven't (and won't) review every case, he pardoned a lot of folks who were absolutely over-punished. 

I agree...most of these are commutations related to drug offenses with harsh mandatory sentences

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

3 minutes ago, Adam said:

I'm a fan of it. While I haven't (and won't) review every case, he pardoned a lot of folks who were absolutely over-punished. 

 

What about those that were over-punished which he didn't pardon? What would you say to them? Surely he didn't pardon everybody who could have possibly deserved it. It seems to give special treatment at his judgement.

[Adam]

Just now, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

What about those that were over-punished which he didn't pardon? What would you say to them? Surely he didn't pardon everybody who could have possibly deserved it. It seems to give special treatment at his judgement.

Some folks are lucky and some ain't. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

Seems like a sloppy way to govern.

[Taylor]

5 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

What about those that were over-punished which he didn't pardon? What would you say to them? Surely he didn't pardon everybody who could have possibly deserved it. It seems to give special treatment at his judgement.

He probably only pardoned black people and the gheys.

[red321]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

What about those that were over-punished which he didn't pardon? What would you say to them? Surely he didn't pardon everybody who could have possibly deserved it. It seems to give special treatment at his judgement.

He's not randomly commuting these sentences. People are applying for clemency/pardons, the white house then reviews the application and makes a decision.

And yes, ultimately it is his judgement, as outlined in the constitution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/us/politics/obama-commutations-pardons-clemency.html

Here's the process

The Process

After the White House publicized the president’s desire to use his clemency power, more than 30,000 convicts applied for relief. That required setting up a process by which Mr. Obama’s lawyers could sift through the requests and make recommendations.

In response, several advocacy groups — including the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Bar Association and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers — formed a consortium called the Clemency Project, to help screen applicants.

Many law firms joined the effort, assigning lawyers to evaluate the clemency applications and to forward deserving cases on to the White House. Violent offenders or those who otherwise did not meet the criteria set out by the Justice Department were set aside. Others were forwarded to government lawyers for review and, potentially, onto the president.

 

Here's an example

One example: Anthony DeWayne Gillis of Supply, Va., was convicted in 2005 of possessing cocaine, making false statements and possessing a firearm in “furtherance of drug trafficking.” He was sentenced to 145 years in prison. Mr. Obama’s grant of commutation reduces the sentence to 20 years.

[Adam]

5 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Seems like a sloppy way to govern.

Well, government isn't very efficient, which is why many prefer less of it. 

[Adam]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

He's not randomly commuting these sentences. People are applying for clemency/pardons, the white house then reviews the application and makes a decision.

And yes, ultimately it is his judgement, as outlined in the constitution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/us/politics/obama-commutations-pardons-clemency.html

Here's the process

The Process

After the White House publicized the president’s desire to use his clemency power, more than 30,000 convicts applied for relief. That required setting up a process by which Mr. Obama’s lawyers could sift through the requests and make recommendations.

In response, several advocacy groups — including the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Bar Association and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers — formed a consortium called the Clemency Project, to help screen applicants.

Many law firms joined the effort, assigning lawyers to evaluate the clemency applications and to forward deserving cases on to the White House. Violent offenders or those who otherwise did not meet the criteria set out by the Justice Department were set aside. Others were forwarded to government lawyers for review and, potentially, onto the president.

 

Here's an example

One example: Anthony DeWayne Gillis of Supply, Va., was convicted in 2005 of possessing cocaine, making false statements and possessing a firearm in “furtherance of drug trafficking.” He was sentenced to 145 years in prison. Mr. Obama’s grant of commutation reduces the sentence to 20 years.

It is beyond ridiculous that a crime that did not result in violence against another person could ever lead to a 145 year sentence. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

Thanks for the explanation @red321

That seems a bit more reasonable but still highly inefficient that an army of lawyers needs to be sifting through this stuff, I don't want to imagine the cost of hiring said army of lawyers. I doubt they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Glad that guy got his sentence reduced.

[Ordos]

I wonder how these will compare to 4 years from now...

[red321]

17 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Thanks for the explanation @red321

That seems a bit more reasonable but still highly inefficient that an army of lawyers needs to be sifting through this stuff, I don't want to imagine the cost of hiring said army of lawyers. I doubt they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Glad that guy got his sentence reduced.

I'm willing to guess that work is being done pro bono by the advocacy groups outlined above. High powered firms do a lot of pro bono work, good PR (and I'm sure they can finagle tax breaks as well).

The justice department probably has people dedicated to the effort as well, the President made it very clear prison sentence reform was a key goal of his, and this is part of that effort.

[red321]

14 minutes ago, Ordos said:

I wonder how these will compare to 4 years from now...

Trump's AG appointment is one of the biggest critics of Obama's clemency effort and also is pushing for more mandatory sentences and a vigorous enforcement of drug laws

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/obama-commutations-criminal-justice-trump.html

 

[Jay]

Yeah I wouldn't expect a Trump administration to throw open the prison gates... but who knows.

Best if you don't get busted for cocaine trafficking and firearm possession in the first place, especially if you're African-American.

 

 

[RallyMo]

9 minutes ago, red321 said:

Trump's AG appointment is one of the biggest critics of Obama's clemency effort and also is pushing for more mandatory sentences and a vigorous enforcement of drug laws

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/obama-commutations-criminal-justice-trump.html

 

Trump is such an asshole.

[red321]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yeah I wouldn't expect a Trump administration to throw open the prison gates... but who knows.

Best if you don't get busted for cocaine trafficking and firearm possession in the first place, especially if you're African-American.

 

 

1) Do you think it's appropriate for a 145 prison sentence for the crimes Gillis was convicted of?

2) Do you think harsh minimum sentences and vigorous enforcement of drug laws have any impact on drug use?

3) Do you think it was appropriate for crack cocaine minimum sentences to be significantly higher than powder cocaine sentences?

4) Do you think it's appropriate for African-americans to have harsher punishments than other races for similar crimes?

[gotbeer]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

Some folks are lucky and some ain't. 

If you are in jail.  Chances are you ain't lucky.

[Jay]

19 minutes ago, red321 said:

1) Do you think it's appropriate for a 145 prison sentence for the crimes Gillis was convicted of?

2) Do you think harsh minimum sentences and vigorous enforcement of drug laws have any impact on drug use?

3) Do you think it was appropriate for crack cocaine minimum sentences to be significantly higher than powder cocaine sentences?

4) Do you think it's appropriate for African-americans to have harsher punishments than other races for similar crimes?

I would say "no" to 1, 3 and 4, 2 "not sure"

But still better if he isn't a corner boy or whatever he was

 

[mtangelsfan]

48 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yeah I wouldn't expect a Trump administration to throw open the prison gates... but who knows.

Best if you don't get busted for cocaine trafficking and firearm possession in the first place, especially if you're African-American.

 

 

Easy to say for a lot of folks.

Not too easy if you grow up in certain areas.  The war on drugs has been less successful than the Viet Nam war and Iraq war combined.

[Ordos]

1 hour ago, red321 said:

Trump's AG appointment is one of the biggest critics of Obama's clemency effort and also is pushing for more mandatory sentences and a vigorous enforcement of drug laws

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/obama-commutations-criminal-justice-trump.html

 

Trump on drugs might be a different story. But how will his eventual list of pardons read? Loaded with white collar offenders?

[red321]

 

7 minutes ago, Ordos said:

Trump on drugs might be a different story. But how will his eventual list of pardons read? Loaded with white collar offenders?

If you listen to Gingrich apparently they are just going to go in with the idea of pre-pardoning everyone.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a51696/newt-gingrich-trump-pardons/

Gingrich, the former speaker of the House and one-time potential running mate for Trump, says Trump should push Congress for legislation that accounts for a billionaire businessman in the White House. "We've never seen this kind of wealth in the White House, and so traditional rules don't work," Gingrich said Monday during an appearance on NPR's "The Diane Rehm Show" about the president-elect's business interests. "We're going to have to think up a whole new approach." And should someone in the Trump administration cross the line, Gingrich has a potential answer for that too. "In the case of the president, he has a broad ability to organize the White House the way he wants to. He also has, frankly, the power of the pardon," Gingrich said. "It's a totally open power. He could simply say, 'Look, I want them to be my advisers. I pardon them if anyone finds them to have behaved against the rules. Period. Technically, under the Constitution, he has that level of authority."