The Official Angels Hot Stove - Winter Meetings - Rumors thread

[Dtwncbad]

35 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm one of those fans you are presumably speaking of and yet I really couldn't care less if the front office and ownership fails at convincing the fan base of anything.   The typical fan only knows names and triple crown stats..  they think HRs are the end all be all of baseball accomplishments. Appealing to the fan base and trying to generate excitement is one of the things that led us to where we are IMO.  A boring offseason will more likely than not cost them some fans .... A winning season likely brings them back -- because let's be real the vast majority of fan-bases are bandwagon types.   I've seen enough of the exciting off-seasons in recent years..  I miss the boring days when we had a farm system and well run team that didn't try to cater to popular opinion or actively attempt to be the West Coast's Yankees.

Hell, the most annoying part of this off-season for me hasn't been the lack of moves, it was what we did do with our Rule V pick.   I would have preferred they been boring and kept the pick but whatever.

I also could not care less what that type of fan thinks.  But that has nothing to do with the point I made about what more engaged intelligent fans are observing.  I am not looking for trading Dante BIchette for Dave Parker or signing Gary Matthews Jr . . .

I like to think I know a bit about baseball and I have been following the team since I moved to CA in 1977.  I'm bored overall (except for obvious love of watching Trout play and other storylines).  But bored OVERALL with the stagnant roster and the totally lacking in enthusiasm for 2017 being different than 2016.

Just being honest.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, CALZONE said:

He's spending more than 2/3 of the teams in MLB. He hasn't traded Trout for a boatload of players or prospects like he will eventually have to do. He's not in a position to buy his way into a championship level team without going over the luxury tax threshold. He tried to buy his way in and now he's paying $24M for a guy that's no longer here and now he has to pay for the second half of the now one dimensional Albert Pujols. All that, and preparing for the fans to demand we pay Trout $400M - $500M to stay. Yeah Arte is a cheap A-hole. 

I am not calling him cheap.  But your cherry picked info (as usual) doesn't tell the whole story.  

we are in the top 33% in spending, but in the top 20% in revenue.  How does that match up?

He spend at a level commensurate with his revenue.  Similar to other teams with like revenues.  All of those teams have players that don't produce to a level equal to their salary.  

There are shades of gray when it comes to spending.  He doesn't have to jump back in with some monster contract to a player that isn't likely to live up to the deal.  But what he could say is that he'll spend an extra 8-10mil on a player to make up for his personal foray into player evaluation.  

To me, it's not that I fee like he's cheap but disingenuous.  His motives are different that what he has represented in the past.  He always talks about the right player and that he'd go up on payroll for him.  There isn't a player anywhere that is going to pack the seat like Trout already does.  So that player doesn't exist.  He represents to the fans that the 'right player' is the one that would help the team but it's really all about which player could he invest in that would give him a positive return on his money.  

It's admirable that he's disciplined enough to use the pile of money for the thing it's allocated and not pull from other piles.  It just sucks from a fan perspective that his motivation to win is outweighed by his motivation to entertain.  

[Troll Daddy]

[Dtwncbad]

47 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Arte didn't become rich by spending more money than he needs. And yeah he's owning a business, and the whole purpose of that is to make money

A young man trying to get rich makes one set of decisions.  Arte is not a young man trying to get rich.  He is an old man who is already pretty filthy rich.  And the one point I would make is I don't think it is even remotely possible for him to spend so much on this team that he ends his life not being filthy rich or not leaving an extremely financially healthy baseball team to his heirs.  Spending foolishly is spending foolishly.  I don't think anyone is asking for that.  But open up a bit and sign Turner for 3B?  Sign a free agent pitcher and then trade from pitching depth for a legit 2B (who may also have a healthy salary)?

This doesn't sound to me like anything more than spending what you have to make the team better, with zero long term financial risk.  

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I am not calling him cheap.  But your cherry picked info (as usual) doesn't tell the whole story.  

we are in the top 33% in spending, but in the top 20% in revenue.  How does that match up?

He spend at a level commensurate with his revenue.  Similar to other teams with like revenues.  All of those teams have players that don't produce to a level equal to their salary.  

There are shades of gray when it comes to spending.  He doesn't have to jump back in with some monster contract to a player that isn't likely to live up to the deal.  But what he could say is that he'll spend an extra 8-10mil on a player to make up for his personal foray into player evaluation.  

To me, it's not that I fee like he's cheap but disingenuous.  His motives are different that what he has represented in the past.  He always talks about the right player and that he'd go up on payroll for him.  There isn't a player anywhere that is going to pack the seat like Trout already does.  So that player doesn't exist.  He represents to the fans that the 'right player' is the one that would help the team but it's really all about which player could he invest in that would give him a positive return on his money.  

It's admirable that he's disciplined enough to use the pile of money for the thing it's allocated and not pull from other piles.  It just sucks from a fan perspective that his motivation to win is outweighed by his motivation to entertain.  

I think that's far too much credit being given. I think his predominant function is to allocate enough money, to make more money. Albert Pujols was an investment meant to drive up sales of merchandise, get more air time, spread the Angels logo across different avenues and put more butts in the seats. In essence, the business side of Albert Pujols offset much of the deadweight we might see in his contract.

I agree with you that he's disingenuous, which is annoying all the more that Mike Trout fell into his lap.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

A young man trying to get rich makes one set of decisions.  Arte is not a young man trying to get rich.  He is an old man who is already pretty filthy rich.  And the one point I would make is I don't think it is even remotely possible for him to spend so much on this team that he ends his life not being filthy rich or not leaving an extremely financially healthy baseball team to his heirs.  Spending foolishly is spending foolishly.  I don't think anyone is asking for that.  But open up a bit and sign Turner for 3B?  Sign a free agent pitcher and then trade from pitching depth for a legit 2B (who may also have a healthy salary)?

This doesn't sound to me like anything more than spending what you have to make the team better, with zero long term financial risk.  

I don't disagree.  I'd be fine with that, but you are basically trying to convince someone to take money out of their pocket and spend it on good feelings.  

[Docwaukee]

'moves that could lead to another'

like if I drink coffee, I have to take a crap?

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I don't disagree.  I'd be fine with that, but you are basically trying to convince someone to take money out of their pocket and spend it on good feelings.  

Not exacly.  I am asking them to spend some money on making the team better.  It is pro sports.  It costs money.  This is the Los Angeles Angels in 2017 with Mike Trout in his prime.  You spend some money and try to win.  Turner is a very good player that produces with the bat and is great in the field.  You go get this guy.  He makes the team better.  I remember when people were freaked out by Adrian Beltre asking for 5 years and how "stupid" that would be for the Angels to get him.  Yes there are lots of 5 year deals that don't produce for 5 years (like CJ Wilson) but that doesn't mean you don't pick a player that fits and try---especially when you have the money and your team is so healthy financially.

The Twins or the Rays are different.  My opinon is the Angels are not acting like the Angels should act.  What would Dave Dombrowski do as GM of this team right now?  There are two answers.  One is aggressively tear it down around Trout, and the other is aggressively build it up around Trout.  But I guarantee Dombrowski would not have left these Winter Meetings with unchecked boxes the way Eppler did.

[Glen]

As an Angels fan, this years' Winter Meetings have been about as exciting as being a dude and going to a gender reveal party with your spouse/girlfriend.

[Dtwncbad]

www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-risk-of-a-justin-turner-deal/

Good argument that Turner could be a value.

And yet Eppler was quoted as not willing to consider moving Escobar.  I don't know if that means the Angels will not pursue a 3B, or if that means even if they do Escobar will not be moved to 2B.

Eppler is on record saying the game is to watch for opportunity and value.  I hope he sees what I see in Turner.

 

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Glen said:

As an Angels fan, this years' Winter Meetings have been about as exciting as being a dude and going to a gender reveal party with your spouse/girlfriend.

that's a way too specific personal example.  

[Glen]

Value = waiver wire.

[Troll Daddy]

[mtangelsfan]

It usually seems like they lock into one move that will lead to others then can't make that first move which then ends with zero moves.

[Cdaniel]

What the hell is MS trying to say in this quote?

[Angel Oracle]

Uhh Sosh, they already learned that in 2001, 2003, 2010, 2013, and 2016.   Granted 2013 and 2016 are more appropriate for the current team.

[VariousCrap]

So Eppler went to the Winter Meetings just for the Rule V draft?  That is money well spent Arte.

[Troll Daddy]

On 12/7/2016 at 8:00 AM, Troll Daddy said:

I putting all my money on the Angels signing J. Turner.

 

Doubling down

[Glen]

14 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

It usually seems like they lock into one move that will lead to others then can't make that first move which then ends with zero moves.

This sounds frighteningly like me in high school.

[mtangelsfan]

We should just move this thread into the "no Angels" Hot Stove thread since there was really never any Angels news to talk about.

 

Seems like most years it is kind of similar to waking up on Christmas morning and finding nothing in your stocking.

[Inside Pitch]

14 minutes ago, Cdaniel said:

What the hell is MS trying to say in this quote?

It's new age lingo for turn the page...

[mtangelsfan]

This should be the official logo/slogan of the Angels 2016 Winter Meetings.......

 

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

We should just move this thread into the "no Angels" Hot Stove thread since there was really never any Angels news to talk about.

 

Seems like most years it is kind of similar to waking up on Christmas morning and finding nothing in your stocking.

Oh boy. Claude's alarm just went off.

[mtangelsfan]

Claude is the guy standing next to the empty stocking reminding you that he told you that it would be empty since you were naughty.

[UndertheHalo]

did we really think this was gonna go differently this year ? Theres not much to be had.  Justin Turner is a significant risk.  I thought we didn't want those deals anymore.   The guy has barely played even one full major league season and he's 32.  Save the contract for someone else.  Plus, we already have a pretty decent 3b.  The Angels aren't going anywhere this year unless a lot goes right with our pitching staff.  Theres nothing we can do in FA to mitigate that.  Next year i'm hopeful that they're aggressive.  I'll be just fucking thrilled if we could get a Solarte from the Padres.  Seems to me that theres an outside chance for that.  If Eppler can swing that and with a little luck, we'll be in the wild card mix.  I think its the best we can hope for this coming season.  

Im fine with being patient on this, have another good draft and have money to spend in the next two offseasons.  We could get good again really quick.  We need to not fuck it up spending money on guys like Justin Turner. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by UndertheHalo